Suprise litter - Questions/pictures

Hi everyone. I am new to the board and rabbits in general. We picked up 2 rabbits from the local pet store about 4 months ago. They were 8 weeks old when we got them. We took them home, googled for hours on sexing and decided they were both girls. So we kept them together in the same cage. Well fast forward 4 months later, and my Dutch is pregnant by my lop. We had seen the lop mounting the dutch frequently but after googling, read that it was a normal display of dominance.
So last night I heard one of the bunnies making some odd noises, but didn't think anything of it till this morning when we found what was a warm, but not moving baby bunny on the food ledge of their cage. Mom was licking him/her but it was extremely floppy and unresponsive. The kit also appeared very long and skinny... I am attaching pictures. It eventually got cold and we removed it.
So my question is, is this bunny full term? Is it supposed to look like this? Do you think it would have survived if she had a nest box to keep it warmer? (the cage is in our living room at a comfy 75 degrees). Any insight would be appreciated!

Thank you!
Sunnie

Welcome to Rabbit Talk! Sorry about your surprise litter.

From the stretched appearance of this kit, it looks like it was stuck, so it was likely DOA.

Keep an eye on the doe for any distress, as it's possible she may not be done giving birth.

Also, if you haven't separated the buck, you need to do so ASAP, otherwise you will be expecting another litter in 4 weeks.

Yep, Phacelia nailed it. The kit was stuck, and almost certainly died before making it out.

Welcome to RabbitTalk. foreversunnie! :hi:

Rabbits can be sooooooo sneaky. :bunnyhop:

Your doe may already be pregnant for the second time. Mark the calendar and give the doe a nest box and nesting materials on Day 28.

Thank you everyone! Yes we did separate them. I palpated her gently to see if I could feel anything else in there, and I'm no expert but she felt empty. I'm keeping my eye on her though. Can you think of any reason the kit got stuck? Just her being a first time mom?

Between a first litter and perhaps being way to young, its not surprising. Hope your doe is ok. Did she pass anymore?

She seems to be doing just fine, never did pass anymore babies!

-- Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:19 pm --

Update! It's been 29 days since my dutch doe had the one stillborn kit. Today she started pulling fur, and building a nest. We have her in a large cage indoors, and I don't have a wooden nest box, so I put it a small cardboard box (tossed in some of her fur, bedding and hay). However, she pulled all the hay and fur out, and used it as a litter box. She's building her nest under the little ledge/hidey hole on the one end of her cage.

I'm really nervous for her and the baby/babies. I hope we get a better outcome this time!! Is there anything else I should be doing? I almost don't want to sleep, as I'm sure she's going to give birth as soon as I turn my back lol

Thanks everyone!
Sunnie <br /><br /> -- Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:19 pm -- <br /><br /> Can someone tell me why I can't post a new reply and only edit??

foreversunnie":1wi0dvpo said:

Can someone tell me why I can't post a new reply and only edit??

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Because no-one else had posted after you did.

Is there any room under the ledge for a box? <br /><br /> -- Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:25 pm -- <br /><br />

foreversunnie":1wi0dvpo said:

I hope we get a better outcome this time!!

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I think you will. Usually when does are bred right after kindling, they release a lot of eggs and you usually get larger litters.

The stretched kit from last time was probably really large because it was a singleton. Hopefully she has several this time and they will be smaller in comparison. :clover:

Fingers crossed for you

Thanks everyone! The ledge is almost like a little box all by itself.. no room to fit anything in there. I wish she wouldn't build the nest under there cause it's hard for me to see into.. but we will work around whatever makes her comfortable. I palpated her and I do feel "something" i think... but she's really tiny.. so I'm not sure how many she could fit in there?! Especially if they are any where near the size as the last one! The buck is a holland lop, so he is a bit bigger than her... Here is a picture of her and her cage.



Sunnie

I can see why she picked that area- it is pretty perfect from a rabbit's standpoint. You will need to put something across the opening- maybe a piece of 2"x4"- so she has to hop over it and the kits wont be able to crawl out.

Another alternative if you really want to be able to easily check the kits would be to remove the ledge and put a box there instead. I wouldn't use the cardboard one, though- too flimsy and light, and the bottom will probably get soaked with urine.

If you have a small plastic storage box (the "shoebox size" would work), I would give her that instead. Make sure to poke a couple of holes in it and secure it to the cage somehow so she can't flip it over.

Since she is only on day 29 she probably wont kindle tonight. Most go to 30-32 days on average... so you can either give her a new nestbox now or wait and move the entire nest once the kits are born.

I've raised a lot of rabbits in solid bottom cages and colonies and it can be a lot easier when it comes to safe nests than wire cages. Being indoors on solid floors she will be fine making a nest there. Mine sometimes nest fully in the open and there is rarely a problem. Occasionally kits will try to wander before their eyes are open and you can put some bricks or boards along the edge to keep them in but I actually find they usually return to their floor nest on their own without me having to intervene. They can't do that with a nest box. Rabbits have no issue with you touching the kits, except for does who just don't like you near the nest but they still don't care about the actual handling part, so I often don't really look in the boxes and more feel around with my hand. The fur is so poofy it tends to obscure things unless you really disturb the nest anyway. I just reach in and pull out every warm body I find to see how healthy and fed they are and then try to feel if there are any not so warm kits in there. The ones that die are often flattened into the bottom or sides of the nest which does make them rather gross to be feeling for but it works and then I wash my hands. After that you just have to count the live ones when you check them and see that they are still clean and fed. At around 10 days people often clean out the nest. If you think you need to clean the area then save as much clean fur as you can and remove everything. Replace with fresh bedding, hay, the remaining fur, and kits. This shouldn't turn the doe off feeding the kits but it does increase the odds of them wandering from the artificial nest you try to remake so I don't do it if it doesn't seem necessary.

I have the same cage and had a litter in the box. You can easily move it towards the center of the cage to see under. When the kits got bigger I left it away from the cage end to give the doe more room to nurse. At about 2 weeks I took the doe out except to nurse once a day.

a7736100":1kvedidg said:

I have the same cage and had a litter in the box. You can easily move it towards the center of the cage to see under. When the kits got bigger I left it away from the cage end to give the doe more room to nurse. At about 2 weeks I took the doe out except to nurse once a day.

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That is a great idea. I will see about sliding it out a bit towards the center so I can peak in the back. She built a huge nest under there!! No babies overnight... although I barely slept wondering what she was doing down there, and when I did sleep I dreamt of baby bunnies that looked like hamsters and she had like 10! lol. I'll be happy if she can just manage one alive this time! My 10 and 13 year old were heartbroken last time.

I will see if I can find a plastic box for her today too. Thank you so much everyone! Hopefully I can post some pics of LIVE babies soon! <3 :bunnyhop: <br /><br /> -- Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:38 am -- <br /><br /> Also, is it normal for them to stop drinking/eating right before giving birth? I can't be certain if she's drinking when I'm not here, but I didn't notice her at her water bottle last night. They are in our living room and usually I hear those annoying things clicking non stop lol.

From what I know, it is normal for them to go off feed. Ours out outdoors so I am not sure about water, I think they would need to be hydrated to give birth. You want a litter of at least a couple alive, as they will help keep each other warm and wont get so big. This last one you had looks like she could have reabsorbed its siblings and it grew to be extra large, making it difficult to pass. If your Buck is bigger that's less than ideal as well. The best situation is to have them be about the same size or to have the Doe be larger, and it causes less problems for her. If she is a dutch then at full gown she should be larger than him, so they might do just fine, and it will be exciting to see! Keep us posted

They are the same age (about 6 months?) and he's almost twice her size. She is still going full force on her nest. I had to remove the ledge because when I went to slide it over I noticed that the plastic parts on the edge that hold it up were not sturdy anymore, so I don't want her jumping on it and bringing it crashing down on any babies! Her nest is huge! Here is a pic of Luna and her nest.


This is Vanellopete. He's the father. His name WAS Vanellope when we thought he was a girl.. now he's Vanello-pete. lol He reminds me of Thumper, or Clover from Sophia the First.



And this is my Blue eyed Lionhead, with my 3 year old daughter Kalyse. We had a hard time finding a name for him, so we just called him Baby Bun.. and it kinda stuck. Hes about 4 months.

<br /><br /> -- Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:54 am -- <br /><br /> I caught her drinking, so at least I can stop worrying about that now!

They sometimes reduce food and water intake the day or 2 before giving birth.

opcorn:

As an aside, your beautiful buck looks more like a Minilop to me than a Holland lop.

Miss M":3i86qi2l said:

opcorn:

As an aside, your beautiful buck looks more like a Minilop to me than a Holland lop.

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You're totally right! I remember at the pet store them saying they weren't sure if he was a mini or holland.. He's so big I assume Holland until I just did some research and realized that the Mini's are the big ones!! Doh!

Still no babies... However, she's now turned over 1/2 her cage into a nest... One big nest on one side, and another smaller nest in a corner on the other side. Do you think there is any chance she's just confused and not really pregnant? She's showing all the signs... She last gave birth on August 29th, and the lop was removed probably a few hours later when we realized what happened. So would the 29th be day 1, or the next day? Either way today is either day 30 or 31. Hurry up babies! lol

foreversunnie":1m5abitk said:

Do you think there is any chance she's just confused and not really pregnant?

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Nope. If a doe has a false pregnancy she starts nesting around day 17 or so.

Your little gal is definitely pregnant in my opinion, she's just building the suspense for you.