What color is this buck?

MamaSheepdog · Feb 24, 2012

This is Captain, Firstpup's buck. I hope he is a lilac, but when I took him to the show, Judge A DQ'ed him as a "tweener"- between blue and opal, I think he said. He does have an intermediate ring color, but the pic didn't turn out very well. I have several kits with the same color.

Here he is in the sun:

Here he is in the shade:

Here is the blurry ring color pic:

Cattle Cait · Feb 24, 2012

There isn't really a technical name for his color. He's exactly what the judge called him, a "tweener".

skysthelimit · Feb 24, 2012

Yeah, with that color on the neck and a ring color, he is not a blue or a lilac. But there is not enough ring color for him to be a proper opal.

MamaSheepdog · Feb 24, 2012

Dang it. Since Floyd died he is my oldest buck, and I've bred him. Should I cull all the offspring so the color doesn't keep showing up?

Cattle Cait · Feb 24, 2012

Cull all that are that color. You could maybe breed him to an Opal and hopefully it will fix itself...I'm not sure which is dominant - agouti or self.

skysthelimit · Feb 24, 2012

Cattle Cait":3u4ufzpc said:
Cull all that are that color. You could maybe breed him to an Opal and hopefully it will fix itself...I'm not sure which is dominant - agouti or self.

Agouti. It's like the castor I have that has castor kits that are too gray to show. I just cull all castors she produces, and keep the self colored kits.

akane · Feb 24, 2012

Well technically he does have a color since he is genetically opal. His color is just not appropriate for shows. I'm not sure if you can alter the ring color of an opal breeding with blacks and reds like you can a castor. A proper opal might be a better idea or like others just keep the self colors. The agouti colors are a pain because of all the details like that which can go wrong so I don't worry about the castors I get from my castor doe. I find their range of color interesting and then they get culled while I keep the self colored offspring. You'll get 50% self breeding to a self colored rabbit and 25% breeding 2 agouti's carrying self.

skysthelimit · Feb 24, 2012

akane":pk29u5st said:
Well technically he does have a color since he is genetically opal. His color is just not appropriate for shows. I'm not sure if you can alter the ring color of an opal breeding with blacks and reds like you can a castor. A proper opal might be a better idea or like others just keep the self colors. The agouti colors are a pain because of all the details like that which can go wrong so I don't worry about the castors I get from my castor doe. I find their range of color interesting and then they get culled while I keep the self colored offspring. You'll get 50% self breeding to a self colored rabbit and 25% breeding 2 agouti's carrying self.

Yeah, but I bought her because I wanted to breed the castor color, so she's really worthless to me in that respect. I have to decide what to do, she is a lovely bun and produces nice self kits, but I don't want a barn of self kits, I want castors. I am trying to sell all of the good looking self kits, so I can make room for a new castor breeding pair.

akane · Feb 24, 2012

If you want castors you should buy good castors. Even a good opal does not prove you will get good castors. It is best to breed castor to castor if you are trying for it and have opal as an aside color that happens from your castors. It's not even suggested to breed opal to castor for good castors unless you know the ring color on your castors needs modified.

http://mr-colors.tripod.com/

MamaSheepdog · Feb 24, 2012

Thanks guys. When I did the show entry, I put him as opal, but then noticed he didn't have the chin line/ears, etc. so I thought he was lilac. He has that pink cast to the grey.

We have plenty of other bucks to choose from, so hopefully Firstpup will find one he really likes. I feel sorry for him, because one of our original two bucks was his- and he died before we could breed him. Poor kid- he isn't having much luck with the rabbits.

skysthelimit · Feb 24, 2012

akane":3cfbpwpv said:
If you want castors you should buy good castors. Even a good opal does not prove you will get good castors. It is best to breed castor to castor if you are trying for it and have opal as an aside color that happens from your castors. It's not even suggested to breed opal to castor for good castors unless you know the ring color on your castors needs modified.

http://mr-colors.tripod.com/

I think you are getting us mixed up. The opal is mamasheepdog's. I'm not breeding Opals to castors, or opals for castors.
I'm just relating my castor story to the fact that I cull my castors from my castor doe because she does not produce good colored castors, but does have good selfs. Since I want castor, I do worry about what castors I get from my castor doe.
So if mamasheepdog wants to breed him for his sake, and not his color, instead of culling him, just cull the mismarked opal offspring he produces, if any. His self colored offspring may be ok.

curlysue · Feb 25, 2012

Its difficult too get good opals.i cant tell you how many get dqed.usually for not having rings.

SatinsRule · Feb 25, 2012

I'd keep the rabbit as a breeder for its demonstrated body type alone. Find an opal or blue and breed him with them. Type is something that is hard to develop but easy to screw up. Fur and color can be corrected in just 1-2 generations.

Devon's Mom Lauren · Feb 25, 2012

The buck just lacks "Ring Definition" nothing else..there is nothing wrong with the colour or his other attributes. Opal is just the dilute of Castor so mixing them is no different than mixing a blue with a black. Just keep the ones with better ring definition or breed him to a doe with excellent ring definition and hope that fixes things! I think the judge "muddied the waters" by calling him a Tweener and should have just used the proper terminology when explaining why he was DQ'd

Edited to add.. Ring definition and ring colour are two different things.. so adding blues blacks or purples will have no effect on definition but will on colour! On second inspection of the photo, rufous modifiers play a huge role in the intensity of castors and may be somewhat lacking in this buck as well, but that is no biggie they can always be added by getting a doe with a higher rufous factor as well as better definition..

MamaSheepdog · Feb 27, 2012

Thank you to everybody for your responses. Firstpup is very happy that Captain will not be driving the bus of kits to Freezer Camp!

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