Learn from my mistake.

About a week after the last show I went to two of my rabbits were showing signs of mites (one shaking his head) the other had a spot between her shoulder blades of dry flaky skin. Since I hadn't wormed any of my rabbits this year yet and they're all in relatively close proximity to each other I decided to use Ivermectin to treat for mites and worms, because all these people seem to go on about the magical properties of Ivermectin and how it's better then Safeguard and all those other brands for treating worms.

I was told it was .5CC per 10lbs of body weight in rabbits. So all my rabbits over 6 months between 3lbs and 4lbs .1CC (Since I've never used it before and didn't want to overdose) and I gave my Argents over 6 months .3CC (they're all between 9-11 lbs).

My Argents are all fine, my lonely only Holland Lop is fine, all but 1 of my Mini Rex are fine. And My dutch? Well both bucks were dead within 24 hours with almost all the signs of Ivermectin Poisoning despite being treated for Ivermectin Poisoning, and both my does are hanging on by a thread with treatment, as is the one Mini Rex doe although the one Dutch doe is steadily going downhill.


Apparently Dutch are like Collies and are very sensitive to Ivermectin and even the smallest amount can kill them. I wish I knew that 2 days ago when I gave them Ivermectin.

So I thought I would pass along this information on Ivermectin:

The clinical signs of Ivermectin poisoning are:

excessive dilatation of the pupil of the eye (mydriasis)
lethargy
stupor
coma
tremors
loss of coordination of the muscles, especially of the extremities (ataxia)
vomiting (emesis)
drooling
death


Less visible symptoms:

depression
tachycardia (fast pulse)
blood pressure fluctuation

According to PIM 292, there is no evidence of increased birth defects in humans or mares subject to normal therapeutic Ivermectin treatment. But Ivermectin is teratogenic in rats, rabbits and mice at or near materno-toxic dose levels. The abnormalities are limited mainly to cleft palate.

Treatment is symptomatic and supportive in cases of overdose. Adverse effects are transient, but analgesics and antihistamines may be required. Since ivermectin is believed to enhance GABA activity in animals, it is probably wise to avoid drugs that enhance GABA activity (benzodiazepines, barbiturates, valproate, valproic acid) in patients with potentially toxic ivermectin exposure (MSD, 1988)

"Animals with White feet, don't treat".

i am sorry for your loss Devon.

The dosage for injectible ivermectin is .08 cc/lb

So sorry that happened. Even when done with the best of intentions, when things go wrong like that it's hard to deal with. I've managed accidents like that before, and I always feel so bad. Thank you for sharing the important information.

I've only ever used Safeguard before as a preventative for worms since it's nearly impossible to Overdose with it and I've always treated mites with oil. So I think I'll stick with what was working for me before.

It is very hard to deal with right now but at least I know for future reference now.

SO Sorry, Devon-- I stopped considering using Ivermectin on a routine basis when I bought that bunch from a kid who used it every month because he had had a chronic mite issue in the herd (found this out half way home) None of the doeswould take in breeding---
You indicate cleft palate is the usual "monster maker" symptom-- that confirms that Ivermectin seriously affects neurological function...

So sorry, Devon... but thank you for sharing your experience so others can avoid a similar misfortune.

ladysown":17mdyuqa said:

i am sorry for your loss Devon.

The dosage for injectible ivermectin is .08 cc/lb

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Then the dosage for a 3 pound rabbit would be .08+.08+.08= .24 cc. Devon gave .10 cc less than half.. The real issue is that Dutch are fatally sensitive to it, something that no one ever mentions!!! Also any rabbit with white feet or whose breed has white feet in it.. therefore the majority of all rabbits could potentially react extremely badly.We have now heard from several other people who said oh ya my buck had a bad reaction to it...excuse me but why wasn't this info shared on all those websites that mention this drug? Nobody talked about it, I don't even think the Dutch Club website has it on either. Well I guess it will start with us. I am just sick with what has happened. I should have realized when the place where we get the stuff said it could kill dogs of herding heritage, I should have stopped and thought about that right then and there that perhaps it would do the same in other species. I have also found out that it perhaps causes stomach pain and other discomforts. So why use it or recommend it at all??? Well my willow tree is now looking extremely thin on the bottom half.Here is another issue;if anyone wants to give advice on any treatments then I sincerely hope its something they have already used successfully before passing it on. I do believe on another thread there was mention of whether certain plants were toxic or not and there was some firsthand knowledge shared which to me is ok because its firsthand experience. Its not "hand-me down" info.

I'm sorry about your losing your buns, Devon. This will be valuable info for anyone raising Dutch.

Holy smokes, Devon, how devastating! I am so sorry, but wow. Dutch and Collies both have ivermectin sensitivity and are both "irish marked". How fascinating to see these genetic links revealed, but how terrible to have to discover them in this way.

I wonder if other species with the Dutch and Irish-style markings would exhibit a similar sensitivity. I wonder if any work has been done to that end...oh, I should go back to school just so i have a better reason to do such experiments.

Again, I'm so sorry about your rabbits.

I found this article very interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1636591/

My one doe I'm about 70% sure she's going to pull through it now she's almost back to normal. The other doe I'm about 40% sure now that she has produced some normal poops.

I've e-mailed quite a few breeders asking if they have experienced anything odd with their rabbits after using Ivermectin. I'm interested in stats right now. I find a lot of the time if someone has something wrong in their rabbitry they don't talk about it out of fear they may receive a bad name in the industry (You know like, "Oh don't buy from them they have sick rabbits". sort of deal).

I'll be sure to post what I find out.

Rachel thanks for pointing that out, although I didn't know the term "irish-marked" before! I am going to assume that this is likely so. Now there are a breed of cattle that look like oreo cookies perhaps they are sensitive too? I am also wondering about the vienna -marked type rabbits now as well, as they can exhibit dutch-type markings.

i know I mentioned a while back about a fellow breeder who used ivermectin on her doe and almost lost her. She had to stay up all night syringing liquid into her and helping her sit upright, helping her eat for a few days and what not. Loss of eyesight for about three weeks until it cleared out of her system. So I have mentioned it.

But so many people say use it use it...it's just fine.,,when I know it isn't. I'll ivermectin the piggies, but it takes some convincing to get me to do the bunnies...I'd rather spend the $5 and use panacur.

Okay, some searching I did a bit ago, indicated that a toxic dose for the 'collie' breeds was 1/200th of the dose for routine treatment of similar sized dogs... So, if the same holds true of the 'dutch' markings, which can remain hidden under solid coats--some breeding programs can be in a lot of trouble if Ivermectin is routinely used. Within the herding dogbreeds that are sensitive, genetics of the bloodlines plays a major role...
I guess better safe thn sorry-- the problem with paste wormers-- a 'pea sized' dose for oneperson will be a different size than another's...<br /><br />__________ Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 pm __________<br /><br />Okay, some searching I did a bit ago, indicated that a toxic dose for the 'collie' breeds was 1/200th of the dose for routine treatment of similar sized dogs... So, if the same holds true of the 'dutch' markings, which can remain hidden under solid coats--some breeding programs can be in a lot of trouble if Ivermectin is routinely used. Within the herding dogbreeds that are sensitive, genetics of the bloodlines plays a major role...
I guess better safe thn sorry-- the problem with paste wormers-- a 'pea sized' dose for oneperson will be a different size than another's...

IM SOO SORRY you lost bunnies.I used too raise Dutch they are sweet rabbits.i have never used any paste wormers only the liquid kind.

curlysue":1ubqndwg said:

IM SOO SORRY you lost bunnies.I used too raise Dutch they are sweet rabbits.i have never used any paste wormers only the liquid kind.

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Ivermectin is available in paste and liquid-- as are the other basic worm treatments we use. I so much prefer to use a liquid, which is much more easily measured with accuracy.

__________ Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:06 am __________

<br /><br />__________ Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:13 am __________<br /><br />

JessicaR":1ubqndwg said:

That is interesting information. My vet said that collies only showed a reaction when they were givin 100 times the reccomended dose, and even then the dog didnt die, it had seizures. I have always given my shelties ivermectin with no problems, but I only give the lowest reccomended dose, never the higher dose needed to treat mange. There is a genetic test that you can have done to see if your dog is affected/carries the MDR1 gene. I wonder if the same test would work with rabbits.

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That math is the same ratio-- 1/200th is used to show how miniscule the dosage that affects herding dogs is... the blindness is sometimes irreversible. Seizures can cause strokes/death.
It would be interesting to see if the genetic marker is the same-- but rabbits are not a big enough, as a commercial interest, to stimulate the research money. Until then, all we have available to us is some very careful record keeping...

I've had several responses from breeders now regarding the use of ivermectin so I'm going to post a list of Breeds in order of the most responses to the least.

-Mini Rex
-Dutch
-Dwarf Hotot
-German Angora
-Flemish Giant
-Silver Fox

I've used ivermectin at a rate of .3cc per kg or a little less than .15 per pound without the rabbits acting any different. Including the mini rex. They don't even show signs of discomfort. I have heard though of several cases where someone lost a whole bunch of rabbits after using ivermectin but usually people don't treat until they see an obvious infestation so it was always assumed by those using ivermectin successfully that the parasite load in those rabbits was too high and the mass death of worms caused the complications which killed them.

I'm so sorry for your loss Devon.

Wow thank you for sharing this!....I didnt even know this could happen!