young bunny nipping

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ladysown

ladysown

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received this email from a family I've sold three bunnies too.

This is about ONE of the bunnies.
"it's when she hold him so he is facing her elbow, he burrows his head in, and then nips her several times. What do we need to do to discourage this? When you put him down, he hops away and lies down. ....... I don't hold on to him when I stroke him and he grinds his teeth, that's why I'm a bit confused, he could just hop away, which he often does. He also nipped their legs to get them to move, he actually nipped Parker for picking up Marley while he was cleaning her. I think he's discovered he get's a reaction. For now, I've told the kids to say no, and put him in his cage (he hates being put in his cage), not just let him go, since then he's getting away with the behavior? He hasn't nipped me yet, but I've seen him nip the kids.

He just started it today after school, and has only done it a few times, but I want to make sure it doesn't continue."

Some background.
They got the doe (marley) on Saturday, Fell in love with her. got the boy on Monday. Plans are to neuter both as they are brought sister.

They had previously had a young buck from me that they returned as he was being a little turd in a pet home. I had sold him to them with the caveat that return for a baby would be fine since he'd been a pet before and done well with a teenager. I didn't know how he would do with a 10 year (so I was told). He was good with them apparently as long as you paid attention to him, but if you stopped he would come up from behind and nip to get your attention. (as I said.. he was being a turd). I never saw signs of any such behaviour in my rabbitry and my son (nine) had zero issues with him.

Found out the daughter is actually about five NOT the ten I was told or the twelve my MIL was told. So I said.. Okay.. a baby or an adult female polish would be the better option.

They went with a baby knowing there are no guarantees on future temperament, but that I breed for temperament and health. Kits are relatively well-handled before going to new homes, but I don't snuggle and hold for a long time either. I advised them to keep the bunnies in their cage for a good two weeks (with limited time outside the cage to help them litter train) but they are "free ranging them" except at night.

Talking with these folks is like arguing with a "But the vet said" triangle. So it's a bit exhausting.

What do I tell them about how to handle this young buck? He's eight weeks old. Perfectly pleasant nice young bunny here. I didn't expect this type of report. I do not expect them to listen to me (because the vet said...) but I want to at least try.

Hints, suggestions, medical support.. what do I tell them?

thanks
 
At least for the nipping problem, they could try squeaking, like a rabbit would, to tell him he's being too rough.
 
JenerationX":3dvqfo8s said:
So... she thinks punishing the rabbit is going to work?
Click to expand...

That was my thought.

It can work to an extent, there are ways to tell a rabbit 'no' and they do understand, but I would wonder what is causing the rabbit to want to nip in the first place.

It might well be the rabbit trying to figure out his pecking order. I would try to make them understand that many rabbits don't like to be held and it might be biting to get free. I think they should leave it on the floor and pet it, so he does the 'flat bunny' thing, which not only helps to form a bond, but helps to establish the pecking order.
 
thanks for your advice all. :) I've passed it along. <br /><br /> __________ Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:51 am __________ <br /><br /> not punish... discipline.

Rabbits correct each other.
They learn what each other will tolerate.
They can also learn what people will tolerate.

She wants to learn what would be good to help this bunny learn his place in teh world and still have what she wants... bunnies for her children to interact with. They have fun watching them.

Her younger daughter is learning how NOT to hold them as the young doe is very passive, and the young buck is more assertive. She's learning.

as hard as it is dealing with this pet person, I have to remember this important fact>>>>

Everyone has a learning curve with bunnies. :)
 
At 8 weeks he MAY grow out of it. As far as I know there is now way to discipline a rabbit - just train with positive influence. Giving goodies will help him relate to you as a food-giver and as long as he's with a doe or siblings that already like you he should get the MEMO soon.

you can't flick a rabbit on the nose if it behaves badly because they are not as smart as dogs or cats, and they have a really short attention span. So us it to your advantage get him interested in something else. food always helps.

if he continues then this aggression is genetic and he will have to be put into the stew pot when he gets older to avoid serous injury to you or other rabbits. He would no make a good pet if this happens.
 
Just as an aside... I've discovered there ARE ways to discipline rabbits, they do respond to it.

My rabbits have learned to stop what they're doing when I tell them "No!". They don't like sharp noises, so clapping your hands, loudly, can easily startle them into stopping a behavior. I've seen our rabbits 'test limits' with things like, chewing on the carpet.

They will start to chew (they almost never do this anymore), I will say "No!" and clap my hands, they stop for a second, chew again - same thing over again. We go through this cycle several times (rabbits are persistent), they the rabbit will actually 'learn'. You can see it happen. Sometimes the rabbit will kind of snort and shake it's head in frustration, or stomp its foot, before hopping off to do something else.

Sometimes, if they're feeling really stubborn, they will come right back to the exact same spot and try it AGAIN. If you're consistent though, they will stop.

Another thing, if our rabbits (the adults anyway), happen to go out into the area they are not supposed to be in, I can fuss at them and clap my hands, and they will go back to their area.

Rabbits are smarter than people give them credit for sometimes. I just don't think any sort of physical, hurtful punishment would work with them because I'm not sure they're wired that way. I don't think that putting them back in their cage/hutch for doing something unwanted will 'teach' them not to do it as their attention span is too short. Squirt bottles and loud, sudden noises work well, if done RIGHT THEN. :)
 
I know that rabbits are trainable.

Look at rabbit hopping, and therapy bunnies. They are conditioned or trained to act in a certain way.

I know that in the past when I've had aggressive bunnies that a quick snatch and grab the first time anything is attempted and it nips it right in the bud. it's the immediacy of the action that makes a huge difference.

look at all the people on this board that have nervous nellie rabbits, and over time through care and attention they get a bunny that loves attention.

I personally have never had a nippy 8 week old bunny, so when a client tells me that they have a nippy bunny I want to know how to stop it. You can't snatch and grab an eight week old, neither would I want to tell a customer to do that, the potential that they do it wrong and cause damage to their pet bunny is too great for me to suggest it. None of my bunnies nip or bite, though I have one you need to watch three days before she's due, but otherwise she's the quietest rabbit in the whole barn who sits for ear rubs.

the fact that the bunny did it for two days and with squealing noises has stopped doing it. speaks volumes. eight week old, given too much freedom too fast, thought he'd test his limits and learned that nipping is not tolerated.

so he's learned and therein I am content. :)
 
ladysown":2z9qiv73 said:
I know that rabbits are trainable.

Look at rabbit hopping, and therapy bunnies. They are conditioned or trained to act in a certain way.
Click to expand...

:) Right, my comment was more directed to folks who may not understand that rabbits can be trained. I think you did the right thing with your clients and glad to hear the little stinker settled down. ;)
 
i think it's funny when people say you can't train rabbits and then tell me how bunny will do thus and such when you do a certain something. it's like HA! trained. :)

maybe it's a terminology thing....
 
ladysown":1p3toui9 said:
i think it's funny when people say you can't train rabbits and then tell me how bunny will do thus and such when you do a certain something. it's like HA! trained. :)

maybe it's a terminology thing....
Click to expand...

I think it's people not understanding training. :D
 
I'm sure rabbits can be trained. Look at what rats can learn. It's just a different language than dogs. You can put a dog in a crate or separate them for punishment (not that a crate should ever be used as punishment if you want them to want to use the crate), but I wasn't sure a rabbit is going to understand that it's in the cage for being naughty or have that craving for its human "pack" the way other animals do.

Sharp noises sounds logical because they'd do that if another rabbit hurt them. What is the "snatch and grab?"
 
JenerationX":1gdueuxq said:
I wasn't sure a rabbit is going to understand that it's in the cage for being naughty or have that craving for its human "pack" the way other animals do.
Click to expand...

I don't think that putting a rabbit in a cage would ever be an effective training technique (I could be wrong) but that's only because there would be to much time lag between the unwanted behavior and putting it in the cage. The rabbit simply would not associate the behavior with the caging, as far as I know.

They definitely have a strong desire to be with their 'family' though. They are naturally colony animals, they prefer to be with a companion (when possible), they do bond with people. I feel bad that I haven't been letting our buck have floor time as much anymore, mostly due to his spraying when he runs over to the girls' cages. :x

I still try to block them off and let him run around though. He loves to come over for rubs and will lay down and chill near us.
 
A good squeak should do it for the boys and they need to get on top of that biting behavior ASAP.

I used to have a lop doe from hell. Put her on the ground and she'd growl and aggressively nail your ankle with her teeth. Next to her cage? Lots of growling and lots of thumping. Offer her a treat and she's enjoying it? Bite. Reaching under the bed and you didn't realize she escaped her cage from the next room over? 6 stitches.
The last straw was when I opened her cage with thick leather gloves on and she still managed to bite through the glove and tore up the top of my hand. I tried so hard for so long to work with her. I guess some rabbits just fail the genetic part of acting domesticated.
 
What is the "snatch and grab?"
Click to expand...

That is what I do when a young rabbit decides to test her/his limits when maturing.

Aka...let's say a rabbit decides to box with me (usually at that teenage stage 4-6 months). Instead of me withdrawing (ergo bunny gets its wish).. instead I quickly grab the scruff and ears and hold bunny tight as I pull it toward me a bit and say STOP. I do not hurt the bunny. it is held securely so it is not hurt. BUT it does know that "OH. that didn't work out like I intended". It's a 3-8 second event that shows immediately that boxing doesn't work.

MIND I do teach my bunnies two words STOP and OKAY. They basically know that STOP means what you are doing right now is unacceptable, and okay means... you are free to do your own thing. :) I use those two words from the time they are born with each of them, and advise my rabbit people to keep using them. Bunnies can and do learn. :)

An intended nip gets the same response and they generally don't do it a second time. Granted...from a young doe it means I also will later gently pull her out and check her for signs of breeding readiness and if she's ready. she'll get bred. If it's a buck he gets culled out of my herd as I don't need that poor behaviour from a buck who should simply be a sweetie wanting attention. :)

Have had to do that ONCE this year (which is way better than when I started in rabbits again) as I breed against it. The young doe in question now leans out of her cage for head rubs...she's turned into a real dollie. She was a silly teen.
 

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