What is causing this? *graphic picture* UPDATED!

[Ozarkansas]

So I have two Beveren does that are sisters. I have been trying to breed both of them and one had 2 miscarriages around 20 days. I never saw any thing excpet I felt babies for sure at 15 days. She seemed a little interested on nesting at 20 days. And I felt no kits at 28 days. Her sister though made it all the way to 28 days before miscarring normal sized, deformed babies. And she ate all if them except this one. I talked to my freind (who happens to be the person I got these does from) and he said they might be missing something in their diet. If they are does anyone know what? If not what do y'all think is causing it?

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm sorry . . . I really have no clear idea what might be causing it. It would have to be a pretty severe dietary deficiency to cause miscarriages in both does, I think. What are you feeding them?

I'd certainly look at their diet and maybe beef up the Vitamins A and E to see if that helps. I'd also breed them to a different buck, even if it is not a pure Beveran, and see how they do. Occasionally, from what I've read, a certain buck/doe combination might not be viable and since the does are sisters it could be that neither is compatible with this particular buck.

After saying all this, I think it is most likely that there is something wrong with the does' reproductive systems. Have either of them ever borne a successful litter?

 

[KimitsuKouseki]

If you're dosing their feed, try free feeding them pellets and hay insted.
Were they in stressful conditions while pregnant?
Like MaggieJ said try a different buck, but probly is something wrong with the does.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I'm certain it is not the buck. The doe who has had two miscarriages was bred to my older buck first and then his son. The other doe was bred to a completely unrelated buck. There was nothing out of the ordinary going on during their pregnancies. And neither doe has had a litter before. My older doe bred to my older buck had a successful litter two weeks ago. I am feeding Purina Professional pellets (18% protein) and alfalfa/orchard grass mix horse quailty hay. The Purina Professional is the only feed that keeps weight on my Americans it also has helped with my Beverens although they weren't as bad. I have also noticed that all the rabbits who have molted since I switched from Manna Pro have much shinier coats. And I now have 5 successful litters from other does born while feeding Purina Professional. So it doesn't really make sense to me that it is the feed. I just really want live babies out of these does so I can keep a baby from each and move on.

 

[alforddm]

Has it been wet or really humid where you are?

 

[Ozarkansas]

It gets really humid during the summer. But I didn't try to breed until September. They were born in Illinois where it is a lot less humid, but they were only 3 months old when I got them. They will be a year next month.

 

[MaggieJ]

It doesn't sound like it is the feed. All the same, a small quantity of BOSS or wheat germ for Vitamin E and some dark leafy greens (in moderation if they're not used to them) for Vitamin A couldn't hurt. But it sounds more and more as though it is something wrong with the does' reproductive systems. About all you can do, as I see it, is try again and hope for better results.

 

[Ozarkansas]

They are both already bred again. This picture was taken almost a week ago. So we'll see how they do this time. I intend to keep trying until I get babies, sooner rather than later preferably.

-- Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:34 am --

Still no litter from Whitney. But I've got a long story about Beverley, so here goes:
These are Beverley's babies. As y'all probably know she has had a hard time carrying to full term and her last litter was especially tragic because she did carry them to 28 days, but they were deformed. Over the last few days I have been very concerned about her because her due date was the 22nd and instead of acting like a normal momma rabbit she was acting sick. Yesterday at about 2:00 she made a beautiful nest and by 4:00 I had watched her hop out of the box and start to clean herself up. Of course I wanted to check the babies right a way. I was thrilled to see 3 warm wiggling kits, but there was one that still had membranes over its face and was not breathing. I cleaned it up as fast as I could, but it looked dead. I was going to dispose of it when it opened its mouth and let out a tiny squeak! I then proceeded to try very gentle mouth to mouth breathing on a bunny (yes I'm crazy). It worked! I got the baby breathing! Now they were all warm and wiggly with plenty of fur, they should be fine right? No! After our Christmas party with my mom's friends and their kids I went to check on them (9:30 at night). For some reason they were cold, sluggish, and barely alive. I brought them in and spent the next 2 hours warming them up and arranging for them and Beverley to stay in the house. I stayed up till 12:45 with them only to wake up at 3:45 to find that the one I had helped breath was cold. I tried to warm him up, he didn't make it. But the other 3 are doing great! And these babies will not be leaving the house for a while! I can't let anything happen to them!

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm glad you brought them in. With fragile kits or singletons, I've always found it easier to bring momma and her cage in too, so they can be housed together and I was able to make sure all was well. When they ultimately go back out, you will need to choose a mild spell to make sure they don't suffer from the sudden change in temperature.

You're not the first to try mouth to mouth on a newborn rabbit, and I'm sure you won't be the the last. I don't call that crazy--I call it dedicated. :goodjob: Even though the kit ultimately succumbed, you learned what can be done to give one its best shot.

They look like nice healthy kits. Please keep us updated on their progress. You can use the same thread so we have the back story, but perhaps edit the title to say UPDATE or something like that.

 

[Nymphadora]

Thank you for the update, Ozarkansas! I'm glad the second round went better for your doe, and I hope those 3 little ones grow big and strong (and to standard ).

Like Maggie said, excellent dedication to giving your little kit mouth-to-mouth! Is a pity it didn't survive, but maybe it would have had other issues as well. Nature has its way.

I'm looking forward to seeing the litter grow!
:good-luck:

 

[Ozarkansas]

Thank you both! I am also looking forward to seeing them grow too and will keep you updated! Beverley spent the night with them in a large plastic tote with hay and wire on the top. She is back outside right now because her cage does not have a drop pan. But I will be building something for her to be inside today. And yes I will not put them out until we get a little bit of warmer weather

 

[ladysown]

you don't have to bring the doe in the house to keep her kits safe. You just bring the kits and nestbox in the house, put them someplace safe and quiet and bring them out every time you do chores. Twice a day.

Leave them out for an hour or so and bring them back in if the weather is particularly cold.

My normal routine is to bring them in a night only and leave them out during the day if the weather is decent and there is no wind blowing...this for kits with less than four in a litter. I bring them in until they are well furred (usually about five days) unless I have reasons to worry on them (super small kits, stupid momma doe peeing on kits, brutally cold weather with wind etc).

It's easier on the doe to not have to make the switch from cold to warm to cold again.

 

[Ozarkansas]

you don't have to bring the doe in the house to keep her kits safe. You just bring the kits and nestbox in the house, put them someplace safe and quiet and bring them out every time you do chores. Twice a day.

Leave them out for an hour or so and bring them back in if the weather is particularly cold.

My normal routine is to bring them in a night only and leave them out during the day if the weather is decent and there is no wind blowing...this for kits with less than four in a litter. I bring them in until they are well furred (usually about five days) unless I have reasons to worry on them (super small kits, stupid momma doe peeing on kits, brutally cold weather with wind etc).

It's easier on the doe to not have to make the switch from cold to warm to cold again.

I've done that before But I'm going to bring the doe in this time because she is very sensitive (a Beveren thing) I had her out this morning and she started pulling out a bunch more fur and making a nest in the corner. She got much happier when I put her in with the babies. It was very clear with the last litter that she was grieving her loss. I just feel like she needs to be with them this time Also our weather is pretty mild compared to more northern states and Canada, so it shouldn't be too stressful :bunnyhop:

-- Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:37 pm --

12 days old and the babies are doing AWESOME!! They still have not gone outside because it has been really cold. As mentioned before their mom is very sensitive, I noticed she was moving the fur of of them so she could see them. That's how they got so cold the first night! She also feeds them 4+ times a day! So they are huge! This morning when I woke up two were out of the nest box, and she was actually laying on her side allowing them to nurse the way kittens or puppies do! She does not want to lose them! :lol: I *think* there is 2 does and 1 buck.
New phone won't let me post pics.......

-- Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:38 pm --

I got it!

 

[Ferra]

That. Is. Adorable. :lol:

 

[MaggieJ]

What cute, chubby fluff-buns! They look very content. :roll:

 

[Ozarkansas]

What cute, chubby fluff-buns! They look very content. :roll:

They have everything they want all the time! They are so chubby! :lol: <br /><br /> -- Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:36 am -- <br /><br /> Beverly's babies did great and are already hitting the show table with awesome comments! Beverly was very sad when I weaned her litter, so I bred her again. Hoping and praying nothing goes wrong! I think I'm going to cull Whitney though. She is the furthest from the Standard out of all my Beverens and I think she is carrying mummified kits from one of her previous pregnancies.

 

[Zass]

I might be late to suggest anything here, but there is nothing dietary that can cause those kinds of deformities. I had a hard time even understanding that was a kit and placenta I was looking at.

You mentioned they were sensitive though, so I can't help but wonder if the miscarriages might be partially due to something environmental upsetting them?

 

[Ozarkansas]

I might be late to suggest anything here, but there is nothing dietary that can cause those kinds of deformities. I had a hard time even understanding that was a kit and placenta I was looking at.

You mentioned they were sensitive though, so I can't help but wonder if the miscarriages might be partially due to something environmental upsetting them?

That is a possibility. It's not like the environment is stressful though. Possibly for Whitney. But Beverly doesn't really stress I don't think. I more of see her happy / sad emotions and she was very sad after she miscarried (kit in the OP). She has since had the successful litter of 3 (one was lost to cold) and should be pregnant again. So I'm really not sure