What in the stars will I get from this breeding? Curious...

[Millinex]

Only a couple weeks left to wait but it's getting the better of me. I picked up 3 mini rex does (proven does) and a jr for a smokin deal of $20, the mini rex does throw ~40 babies between the 3 of them so I decided to give it a whirl, curious what I might get:

Does:
2 Tan/orange looking rabbits (maybe the technical term is fawn?)
1 Tan/orange and white broken doe

Buck:
Chocolate buck

No idea any of their lineage at all, just what I can see on the outside. Curious what they might throw... Thanks!

 

[Dood]

Chestnuts
Sorry, chestnut are called Castor in rex, so...

Castor and a couple broken castor from the broken doe

 

[PSFAngoras]

With recessives you could have some fun too though, possible some more fawns or some torts, but your most likely to get castors like dood said.

That's another, more insignificant reason why I got out I my rex. Almost all I could get was castor and broken castor. I like my angoras because I have enough genetics to get a whole mini rainbow of colors... Except for reds Darn those elusive Rufus modifiers!

 

[skysthelimit]

I like my angoras because I have enough genetics to get a whole mini rainbow of colors... Except for reds Darn those elusive Rufus modifiers!

Red is not a rufus modifier, it is an actual gene, non extension chestnut agouti, and the one gene, besides Steel, I don't mess with, since my primary breed, Rex, does not recognise the other colors that come along with Reds (torts and fawns). If you have a fawn, or a tort, or tri, you have the ee gene.

 

[PSFAngoras]

From my understanding, the red is created by the extension gene, yes, but since it is expanding the 'tan' band on the hairs, you need Rufus modifiers to turn the tan red.

The way I have read it, the tan band is regulated by the Rufus modifiers as far as to how tan/ red it is. I have gotten a whole slew of chestnuts, some redder, and some tanner, but all the same genes, only the modifiers regulate how tan/red they are. If they have more red modifiers, they are called coppers, but all research I've done has led me to see that a copper is nothing more than a chestnut with an overload of Rufus modifiers. And yes, red is essentially a copper (chestnut with a high number of red Rufus mods.) that has both recessive extension genes.

If you check out one site, angorahouse.com and look at their genetics page, this is shown. This is just one of the examples I know of off the top of my head, will be happy to provide more upon request.

Where are you finding that a separate gene is responsible for the red color?<br /><br />__________ Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:02 pm __________<br /><br />And I certainly have the 'ee' gene, as I constantly get fawn, cream, tort, ermines, and pearls. All I'm missing is 'Rufus'.

 

[Dood]

To get a self looking red instead of an agouti red (with a white belly) you also need to be double recessive in the wideband gene = A_ B_ C_ D_ ee ww

And the Rufus modifiers just make it a richer / darker red instead of orangish

 

[skysthelimit]

Rufus modifiers determine how dark the color is, but Red does not just describe the actual color, it describes a particular gene sequence (non extension Chestnut Agouti with a wideband) just like Chestnut and Castor do. Rufus does not turn the tan into Red, the presence of the non extension gene turns the Chestnut into a Red.


Castor and Red (chestnut and Red) are nearly the same depth of color, especially in normal or short coated rabbits like Rex. In Angoras, the colors looks significantly different because the length of the wool spreads the color along the hair shaft, the colors are diluted to begin with, which is why a black in Rex, looks nothing like a black in Angora, and also the reason why chestnuts in Rex, look so dramatically different than other chestnuts they even have their own name (hairs are so short the color is more concentrated. They will never be as deep as colors on any other breeds.


Chestnut agouti and Red are virtually the same genetic code A_B_C_D_, except chestnuts have E_ and Reds ee.

What makes them different is the Castor has black tipping (extension) and the Red does not (non extension). The non extension gene changes the extension of the rufus band, so that the Castor/chestnut band travels the entire length of the hair shaft, removing the black tipping.
How dark the rufus bands are is independent of the non extension gene, and is dependent on that line of rabbits. I had one rabbit, the exact depth of color as the others, but as his litter mates developed black tipping, he did not. I suspect he was really a Red, but I did not let him live long enough to find out.

You can have Castors with a wideband, and you can have them without. A wide band will not change the rufus of the Castors, but it will remove a lot of the black surface color. If you get a Red without a wideband, you will have a white belly, and a blue undercoat, and sometimes a sooty cast across the top from leftover black tipping.


A Fawn is a dilute Red, A_B_C_ddee. If you are getting Fawns, you have dilute non extension at work.


One of the problems Rex has is a SOP Lynx should have the wideband with a white belly (really a Fawn dilute Red), but a genetic Lynx has no wideband and has a blue undercoat(Dilute Chocolate Chestnut Agouti). When I had a Lynx pop up, I knew it was a genetic lynx, because I don't have ee in my herd anymore.<br /><br />__________ Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:29 am __________<br /><br />

Where are you finding that a separate gene is responsible for the red color?

__________ Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:02 pm __________

And I certainly have the 'ee' gene, as I constantly get fawn, cream, tort, ermines, and pearls. All I'm missing is 'Rufus'.

If it were not the case, I would get Fawns, Creams, Torts, and I have never. I am breeding Chestnuts, to Otters, to selfs that have no rufus modifers to pass on, to Chins that strip away rufus modifiers. I get darker and lighter Chestnuts, some with poor banding but never Fawns or Creams. One of the reasons I will not breed Reds, is I would start getting torts from selfs, and that is a DQ in Rex.

http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ge ... pes-chart/

http://www.raising-rabbits.com/e-locus- ... olors.html

http://www.harvestmoonangoras.com/angor ... netics.htm

http://www.highdesertfiberworks.com/a_r ... olors.html

http://www.angorahouse.com/angora%20rab ... netics.htm


Copper is just a variation of Chestnut, and doesn't even have a separate genetic code. It's kind of splitting hairs, in Rex, it would just be a darker Castor or a lighter Castor, with both permitted on the table.