What colour parents would I need to produce 'Siamese Sable'?

[aussiegirl]

Hi everyone,

Can anyone tell me what colour the parents would need to be to produce the 'Siamese Sable' - I have attached a picture of the colour I am after.



I know the Genotype is aa B- cchl- D- E-


The colours of the Bucks I currently have
1 x chinchilla Flemish Giant.
1 x chinchilla British Giant
2 x New Zealand White
2 x Californian
1 x Chocolate otter standard Rex
1 x Chocolate agouti/chinchilla?

will any of these males be suitable?

 

[Dood]

You need to figure out the bucks genetypes and what recessives they carry

None of them are visually self so you need a buck who carries it

The himilayan and REW will let the sable colour come through but might hide agouti and steel

 

[aussiegirl]

Hi Dood,

So I need a Buck or Doe the are either Self or a Carrier of Self but doesn't have the Agouti or Steel gene - is this right?

The only Solid coloured rabbits I have other than REW
are 3 x Black Flemish Giant x New Zealand White Does (they seem to always have black kits whether bred to my Flemish or NZW bucks - although I think one doe might carry a Rex gene as she occasionally throws out a kit with the Rex coat). Does this mean that these Does might be Self?.

When I find a 'Self' or a rabbit that carries it, do I breed the rabbit to a Californian (the only himilayan I have is my Rex Doe) technically they are the same thing aren't they?

thanks..

 

[ladysown]

I get siamese sable if I breed pointed or shaded (pointed is best) with anything that carries chinchilla.

Currently by best siamese sable are coming from a california buck crossed with a sable point doe.

 

[akane]

You need something that has sable to make sable. An "aa" seal or sable of any color bred to your cali should work. This site has a list of colors by c locus gene so anything in the seal or sable column with aa would work the first generation
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ge ... pes-chart/

Then you need to mix something that is self and from the ch or c column. A cali is usually a black himi so would be a self aa and ch. The NZ might work but you can't tell if it's self so you might just get shaded agoutis.

You can get sables by using the martens, otter points, and shaded agoutis but because you need 2 self genes, that aa, it might take 2 generations with breeding back to the self rabbit such as the cali to get both. In the meantime you will get more martens and shaded agoutis.

 

[Dood]

So I need a Buck or Doe the are either Self or a Carrier of Self but doesn't have the Agouti or Steel gene - is this right?

right. But these can be easily bred out in future generations as they are dominant

The only Solid coloured rabbits I have other than REW
are 3 x Black Flemish Giant x New Zealand White Does

These girls sound perfect as they carry self and REW but only IF you already have a siamese sable buck to cross to because, like Akane said, you also need a rabbit that carries the light shaded gene and none of the bucks you listed do, unless as a hidden recessive.

 

[aussiegirl]

Hi everyone,

I don't think I have any rabbits with the shaded gene yet (so obviously I'll have to try & produce that FIRST?), I do however have 3 x Silver Marten Does that I forgot to mention as they are not quite ready to breed with yet - I think my 'Flemish Giant Buck' might carry that Gene as all three Does are from different mothers (2 x NZW does & a Flemish Giant Doe) but they were mated to the same buck. I also have 3 x Californian Does as well as my 2 x Cali Bucks (one of my Cali bucks has the chocolate points though).

So I guess my next question is 'What coloured parents will I need to produce either a 'Shaded' or 'Seal'? - so that I can get my Sable.

I have saved & looked through heaps of websites & pages about Genetics & colours but it is still quite overwhelming, so I figured it is easier to just ask someone who already knows what they are talking about.

Thanks.

 

[Dood]

So I guess my next question is 'What coloured parents will I need to produce either a 'Shaded' or 'Seal'? - so that I can get my Sable.

ANY colour of rabbit can produce seal (aa __ cchl cchl __ E_ ) or sable (aa __ cchl_ __ E_ ) as long as the right combination of genes are there.

For example a

Chestnut = Aa B_ Cchl D_ E_
X
Chestnut = Aa B_ Cchl D_ E_
=
Seal = aa B_ cchlcchl D_ E_

OR

REW = _a __ cc __ E_
X
Black = aa B_ Cchl D_ E_
=
Sable = aa B_ cchl c D_ E_

 

[aussiegirl]

You definitely know your stuff 'Dood'. THANKS..

I'll see how I go with all the info you and the other people have given me - I'll update this thread when I finally get my 'SABLE', probably take awhile though.


Also, I'll probably be asking for your expertise again on some colours from a litter of 'British Giants' (currently 2 wks old), Just have to take some pictures of the babies & parents.

I'll also be sending some updated pictures of the 'Tort Rex' kits that I posted a little while back.

Many Thanks
Aussigirl

 

[Rosey1]

Hi Dood,

So I need a Buck or Doe the are either Self or a Carrier of Self but doesn't have the Agouti or Steel gene - is this right?

The only Solid coloured rabbits I have other than REW
are 3 x Black Flemish Giant x New Zealand White Does (they seem to always have black kits whether bred to my Flemish or NZW bucks - although I think one doe might carry a Rex gene as she occasionally throws out a kit with the Rex coat). Does this mean that these Does might be Self?.

When I find a 'Self' or a rabbit that carries it, do I breed the rabbit to a Californian (the only himilayan I have is my Rex Doe) technically they are the same thing aren't they?

thanks..

Hi. So I have a black New Zealand doe who has some very thin strips of almost not there white hairs. I’m guessing that is her marks for the carrier of the BEW gene. She throws me some beautiful blue eyed beauties. Now her first litter she gave me all black kits, 1 blue with a mane (she’s short haired as was the dad… so there’s that gene too) then one dark tan. Well the dark tan as she aged started getting a dark button nose so I decided to keep her because she was cute. Now that she is grown she has darker ears, feet and nose. She gives me at least one just like her in every batch, with whoever I breed her too. Her Dad was a black New Zealand with a brown bum and a few strands of white. So basically a harlequin I think. Now back to Phoebe (my black mom). When I bred her to Thumper (a white with lite tan spots) a New Zealand boy with bluish eyes. She had a whole array of colored babies. Black steel tipped, another blue, dark tan, 2 brokens and one that is looking Siamese like you are trying to get. She is beautiful. She started out looking white and her Siamese colors are darkening daily as she gets older. She’s only about 3 1/2 weeks old, buts she’s a cutie . I know it’s an old post, but hopefully this helps. Or. Did you ever figure it out?

 

[Alaska Satin]

Hi everyone,

Can anyone tell me what colour the parents would need to be to produce the 'Siamese Sable' - I have attached a picture of the colour I am after.

View attachment 13680

I know the Genotype is aa B- cchl- D- E-


The colours of the Bucks I currently have
1 x chinchilla Flemish Giant.
1 x chinchilla British Giant
2 x New Zealand White
2 x Californian
1 x Chocolate otter standard Rex
1 x Chocolate agouti/chinchilla?

will any of these males be suitable?

Sorry, I did not realize this thread was so old when I wrote the following...

From each parent a siamese sable needs a self gene <a> and a chin light <cchl> with another c-locus gene <ch> or <c>. (Two cchl genes won't work since that gives you seal.)

Th chinchilla bucks are <A_B_cchd_D_E_> They *might* be able to give you sable, but only if they happened to carry a hidden self <a>. One of the rabbits, either the buck or doe, would also need to carry a hidden sable <cchl>. Chinchillas carrying sable often look kind of muddy or rusty instead of having that crisp pearl and black, so that can be a clue to use one or the other of your bucks.

The REWs are wild cards since it's hard to say what they carry, other than they will NOT carry sable.

The Californian could give you siamese sable if you breed it with a doe that is sable or seal, or that carries sable.

Chocolate otter has nothing helpful unless it's carrying a hidden <a> or <cchl>. Same with chocolate aguoti/chinchilla.

Whichever buck you choose, unless one of the bucks just happens to carry sable, you'll need a doe that is or carries sable to get siamese sables in the first generation. If I were you, I'd start with the californian. That's the only self on your list (other than possibly the wildcard REWs) and will keep agouti and tan markings from being issues, and himi is a good combination with cchl. Even if the cal carries REW, it won't overpower the sable. Inf you can get a seal doe to breed to your cal buck, you should get all siamese sables in the first generation.

Sources for self genes: black, blue, chocolate, lilac, californian, tort
Sources for sable genes: sable, seal, siamese sable, sable martin, smoke pearl