What Colour Are These Vlops?

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Bad Habit

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Is this guy Orange?

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These two are broken somethings... maybe one orange one lynx? but inside the ears seems to be the same colour as the body colour, and eyes are dark brown, not blue-grey.

Based on the heritage on the parents, they were broken orange (Aa Bb Cc Dd ee) and solid lynx (Aa bb Cc dd Ee). There was also a black tort and 3 rews in the litter.
 
I don't know if vlops colors will be taken after the English lop side or the mini rex side. There is no red and no lynx in elops.
As an English lop breeder I would call them either fawn or cream, depending on eye color as they mature, because it does sometimes change.
 
I am pretty sure they would go after the mini rex side, since they have the mini rex fur.

Lynx is simply lilac agouti. It would exist in elops, unless elops don't have agouti, or don't have chocolate/lilac. It might not be recognized, but it's there.
 
I know what lynx is. I'm just saying elops don't "normally" come in that color. Same for chocolate and himilayan. Yes, there are a few random people working on various different colors, and there are some "sport" animals which are those colors, but elops just don't "normally" come in them yet. As elops are only shown as broken or solids, the variation of colors hasn't really been a big deal to sort out, I guess.

As far as whether they will take color after mini rex due to the fur, or after elops due to the ears, I guess one will just have to wait and see what is accepted. If I remember the proposed standard from the original breeder, crown, build, type, etc were all supposed to take after the elops standard. The only thing that was rex was the fur.

I have a barn full of babies that look just like that. Depending on eye color, they are fawn or cream. If the smut continues to darken, they may even end up turning into a bad blue torte.

You will want to play with those ears and pet them down. They have far too much ear control.
 
Yeah, no. The ears fall on their own, they don't need any assistance. Because they had mini rex added in, their ears are more like the other lop breeds - mini for example, where they lop later on.
 
Luvabunny was just offering some helpful advice and knows they will fall on their own but maybe not to show standards.

'Pet them down' just means to encourage them to lop so they wont be disqualified for too much ear control.

Every day you gently stretch the tendons and ligaments so you get a nice lop, it's no more harmful than doing yoga or Pilates yourself. Dog breeders do it as well to get proper ear carriage and it is best to start a doing it when they are young and the tendons are more elastic and the rabbits get use to it and they often really enjoy getting their ears massaged :)

I don't know what the rex people call a castors that are non extension and not wideband but this is the colour I think your kits are. In Mini lops they are called 'orange' but in Flemmish giants they are called 'fawn'.

Orange or fawn are not acceptable rex colours - only red which is a castor with two recessive non extension AND two recessive wideband. (A_ B_ C_ D_ ee ww)

Whatever colour you decide to call them, genetically I think they are A_ B_ C_ D_ ee W_
 
I also raise elops. I have an "orange" that was labeled as fawn on the pedigree, but it threw non-dilutes when paired with a dilute, so I changed it to an orange. Is orange maybe the same as red in the rex world? Also, some of my elops have lynx on their pedigree, and I believe they are true lynx because I am now getting self lilacs from them. So while they are rare like luvabunny said, they are also out there in the elops too.
(oops...sorry, I didn't read all of dood's explanation before I started :/)
 
Yes, I know what pet them down means, however in my previous litter, the ears have fallen just fine without me worrying over them. In Elops, you expect them to fall before the eyes are open, however that's not the case with the vlops, and I'd rather promote proper ear carriage without having to fuss over them - isn't that better for the breed as a whole?

Dood - do you think all 3 are likely to be orange then? The two broken kits are not nearly as red as the solid kit, and I'm worried that the brokens are dilute, when I am wanting to keep back a dense coloured kit. I'd have preferred to have non-agouti, since I want self chocolate rather than choc agouti(amber I think it's called?), but this is what I have to work with.

I might breed Santana back to the buck when Jenn comes to pick up her kits, depending on the happenings.
 
isn't that better for the breed as a whole?
in the long run. An ethical breeder would not sell such an animal as breeding stock but even people buying pets want them to follow the standard.

Sorting out amber (chocolate agouti), 'fawns' (reds without wideband) and their dilutes (blue fawn and lilac fawn) are a PITA even in rabbits that don't have rex fur :lol: and I'm not even going to try to do it from pictures.

Add a lack of Rufus factors possibly causing pale colours to the mix and without test breeding there is no way to know for certain - even rabbit judges get it wrong and pedigrees are changed once unexpected colours show up in the nest box :mrgreen:
 
To me looks like regular reds without wideband to turn the stomach red and lacking in rufus factors which lets the side swirls come out lighter on young animals. Bred plenty of mini rex crosses that were that color. Of course in other breeds red may be called orange or fawn and in yet other breeds fawn may be a dilute of red. The names get confusing. Genotype I would say is A*B*D*C*ee . Nonextension chestnut/castor.
 
I found this explanation
AppleRunRabbitry":1i6kvc4f said:
I have been breeding Rex for twelve years, and in those years, I have had Ambers and Reds together the whole time.
The easiest way to tell a red from an amber is to check the color of the kits in the first few days. Reds, even chocolate based reds, will appear fawn to orange (or rusty orange for a chocolate red) in the first few days after birth. An amber, on the other hand, will very closely resemble a chocolate otter, and only after a week or so will begin to move that really short hair further from the body, and thus begin developing that orange ring. For the next four to six weeks, these babies will continue to grow that original baby hair our to a very long orange band, as well as a pretty long undercolor band. The tipping at this age is VERY slight, as the tipping is relative to the coat size when the kit was born. a big hint that the animal is not red (or at least not black-based red) is a chocolate-tortish tint on the sides of the four to six week old kit.
As the baby grows from six weeks upward, the new coat will begin to form, coming out with a more distinct tipping and a redder band if it is an amber. If the baby is a red, it will simply molt into a sharper red color, there will not be black tipping. A smutty red at this age will have smut on the lower hindquarters, and very light red undercolor on those smutty areas.
Another strong hint on these guys is the points. A red will have the smut on the ears appearing to be ear lacing, but they VERY rarely will have smut on the tip of their tails. Ambers have a tail that is almost pure chocolate.
As they get older, around four to five months, ambers and reds are quite different. A red, when the fur is blown, will be a red that fades to a lighter red, with maybe a grayish tipping. An amber will be a chocolate tipped, with red that fades to blue undercolor.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
P.S. From the picture, I would say the animal is an amber. The chocolate rabbit next to it kind of makes the camera wash out the chocolate tipping. But based on the heavy chocolate tail, I would assume its amber. Its hard to make a guess unless you're looking directly at the animal and blowing into their fur.
from this post - topic9151.html
 
So that would make this guy orange, not amber?

Maybe I will risk taking them out in the cold today to photograph them in the light.
 
Id say orange/fawn as their tails don't look chocolaty.

Maybe try and get a picture of the rings too.

According to ARR's explanation if the rings have a grey/brown band its amber (chocolate agouti) but if it stays orange and gets lighter it's non-extension castor ( orange/fawn)
 
Well, they never looked chocolate otter as kits. I have younger pics of all of them, some more specifically one kit than another(I've been focusing on the solid because I believe that one to be a buck, the 2 brokens does)
 
Why not keep the tort? That will narrow it down to self, he'll carry chocolate and dilute and when bred to the lynx you should get 50% self and might get some blues and chocolate.
 
Because he's a she.

__________ Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:50 am __________

At least, based on my estimates...

2 rew does
1 rew buck
1 black tort doe
2 broken something does
1 solid something buck.

I'm getting pretty good at telling by the little bits what genders I have. I'm still occasionally wrong, but much higher than the 50% success rate you'd assume if I was guessing.

I want to keep back a broken, as it saves me a generation or two in breeding as neither of the brokens I have carry chocolate. So if I save back a broken doe from this litter, it can be used later to breed to a solid. I want one of the brokens to be a boy, I would keep him and the black tort solid doe if one of the brokens turn out to be hims.<br /><br />__________ Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:03 pm __________<br /><br />I think I waited too late in the day, the colours seem kind of washed out. But here's 2 natural light photos, hopefully I'll get my butt in gear faster tomorrow.

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lol thank you, Dayna!

They are hugely irritating rabbits. They eat A LOT. Very active and busy, always getting into things, throwing things around, etc. Thumpy and diggy and just plain annoying at times. But oh so soft, and willing to sit with you for a while and be petted. And the ears are too adorable.<br /><br />__________ Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:54 am __________<br /><br />Okay, was wrong on gender.

The litter is

2 REW bucks
1 REW doe
1 black tort doe
1 orange(?) buck
2 broken something does

I will have to post more pictures later, they're a really confusing pair of brokens.

Eyes have white rings, don't know if that is agouti markings, or broken markings.
Inside Ears is the same colour as the body - which would indicate self?
Feet and bellies are white, due to broken markings.
Can't remember tail colour, will have to check.
Eyes are dark brown - however all three of my vlops are supposed to be dilute(opal, lynx, broken blue tort) and all have dark brown eyes. All the kits from my previous litter had dark brown eyes, and I had 2 blue torts, a broken blue tort and a broken black.
Have not blown in the coat yet.
 
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