What color did I end up with here? Satins.

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Shea

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Standard satins. I've been breeding towards Black tort with this line for awhile. Have had too much blue in the line to hit it regularly. Finally got a halfway decent black tort buck, bred back to 2 chestnut half sisters and get these in the resulting litters. Original stock did not carry rew or chocolate. Though my meat line does, will 2x check my records if its possible I crossed them, but not likely.
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Is this chocolate? Some kind of red?
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This on is lighter then the black torts in the litter, a blue tort maybe?

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And this last one that did not want to cooperate. It was almost white when born.
 

Alaska Satin

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That top one is actually a quite beautiful, clear red (which is different from orange in that red has two wideband genes as well as the non-extension genes). I wish my red satins looked that good - all my recent reds have been smutty. The second looks like a blue tort. The third is hard to tell because some of the pertinent parts (feet, tail and flanks) aren't visible. Most likely, given its red sibling, is fawn/cream, which is a dilute red. The picture makes it look like it might have another color on the ears, but that could be smut or lighting. Both reds and creams are born looking pretty pink, very like whites; in fact if there are no whites in the litter, you can mistake them for whites for the first day or so. It doesn't seem to have a nose marking so maybe not tort, although if you did have chocolate sneak in there and combine with dilute, lilac tort would start out *very* light.
Why are you breeding toward tort in Satins, since that is not a recognized color? I'm asking because a couple of us have been talking about a tort COD to get the color accepted by the ARBA - it's such a gorgeous color in the satin coat!
It would be nice to see more pictures when they're a little older.
 

Shea

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That top one is actually a quite beautiful, clear red (which is different from orange in that red has two wideband genes as well as the non-extension genes). I wish my red satins looked that good - all my recent reds have been smutty. The second looks like a blue tort. The third is hard to tell because some of the pertinent parts (feet, tail and flanks) aren't visible. Most likely, given its red sibling, is fawn/cream, which is a dilute red. The picture makes it look like it might have another color on the ears, but that could be smut or lighting. Both reds and creams are born looking pretty pink, very like whites; in fact if there are no whites in the litter, you can mistake them for whites for the first day or so. It doesn't seem to have a nose marking so maybe not tort, although if you did have chocolate sneak in there and combine with dilute, lilac tort would start out *very* light.
Why are you breeding toward tort in Satins, since that is not a recognized color? I'm asking because a couple of us have been talking about a tort COD to get the color accepted by the ARBA - it's such a gorgeous color in the satin coat!
It would be nice to see more pictures when they're a little older.
I like the depth of color in the black tort. The red with black belly fur makes a gorgeous pelt. And I want a coat in that color. 😁
Do you know how red would be written out? Genetics wise?
 

Alaska Satin

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Red is
<A_ B_ C_ D_ ee ww enen>
with the <e> being the recessive non-extension gene and the <w> being the recessive wideband gene (basically extends/widens the rufous middle band in the agouti coat).
You might already know this, but black tort is
<aa B_ C_ D_ ee enen>
The big difference is that tort is a self, not an agouti, plus no wideband genes. Although I'm not sure what the wideband gene would do - maybe just cover up or severely restrict the black markings? I don't know if I've ever seen it.
 
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