What are these markings?

[cnichols]

This is one of the rabbits I got two weeks ago. I have 4 that are similarly marked. I'm pretty sure they aren't cali marked since they have no color on their paws or tail.

This particular one has a thin black stripe down the center of her back.

 

[Dood]

Cali marked rabbits always have pink/red eyes, they are like pointed red eye whites.

Your rabbits have a broken pattern seen in Checkered Giants, English Spots and Rhinelanders but it has been introduced to other breeds as well.

The broken gene is dominant and if they have only one broken gene they tend to have more colour and less white. If you breed them to a coloured rabbit, half the kits will have the broken pattern.

When a rabbit gets two copies, they are mostly white with very little colour and are called 'charlies' which is what I believe your rabbits are. If you breed them to a coloured rabbit, all the kits will have the broken pattern.

 

[rawfeeder]

I agree, your rabbit looks like a 'charlie'. I think a black charlie. but its hard to tell the color in that photo.

You can also get 'false charlie's', that are technically and genetically brokens just with minimal pattern.

Beautiful! But some people have linked the gene behind it with internal issues (usually digestive). Just keep an eye on your does for anything unusual and be careful to switch foods slowly just in case!

I have a false charlie doe who always have slightly softer poops than everybunny else. She is a stunning doe, but I will be breeding away from the pattern, just to avoid potential future problems.

 

[cnichols]

Oh how interesting! I have one doe and three bucks with the same types of markings. I did notice that one of the bucks has very soft poops so .. maybe he'll be one of the ones to go. The rest seem to be doing okay in that department.

I have one buck that appears to be solid black (except for a slightly lighter color on the bottom of his feet) but I don't know if they're related or not. Here's a picture of him.

Oh, and they all have dark eyes ... brown I think. So yeah, they aren't cali marked, although I do have several of those as well.

And yes, the coloring is definately black. They all look like someone got ahold of them with the eyeliner! LOL All my pics were taken in direct sunlight so it's kinda hard to see all of their markings clearly.

Tomorrow is weight day so we'll see how much they've all put on in the past two weeks since we got them!

eta: might have to take new pictures too! Just so we can see how their coats have improved as well.

 

[SatinsRule]

If you breed them to a coloured rabbit, half the kits will have the broken pattern.

Unless you get an odd-numbered litter of kits. :lol:

 

[cnichols]

Just for verification ...

These Charlie's have the EnEn gene.

If I breed to a solid (who would be enen) I will get all "Broken" kits.
If I breed to a broken (who would be Enen) I would get 1/2 Broken 1/2 Solid
If I breed to another Charlie I would get all "Charlie"

The genetics would read ... aa __ ch__ D_ e_ EnEn Du_ VV ww SiSi ... ???

I don't really know much about genetics (just really starting to understand bits of it) but based on the rabbit genetics page I've been looking at this is my best guess.

I was going to ask a question about breeding a Charlie to a Self Red but my eyes are going crossed trying to understand rufus modifiers and such. :stars:

 

[Dood]

If I breed {your charlie} to a broken (who would be Enen) I would get 1/2 Broken 1/2 Solid

You'll get 50% Enen(broken), 50% EnEn (broken charlie) and no enen (solid)

The genetics would read ... aa __ ch__ D_ e_ EnEn Du_ VV ww SiSi ... ???

aa B_ C_ D_ E_ EnEn Du_ V_ W_ Si _

I am not sure where you got the himalayan gene from 'ch_' unless you know they came from a California and then they could be 'C ch' or 'C c'. Or the non-extension 'e_' or 'ww' unless both parents carried a double recessive.

We cannot know the blanks until we see some offspring.

breeding a Charlie to a Self Red

Your broken black rabbits are selfs 'aa' and have at least one full extension gene and are 'Ee' or 'EE'
Your red rabbit has at least one agouti gene and is 'Aa' or 'AA' and two non-extension genes and is 'ee'

When you combine the two you get mostly chestnut 'Aa' and 'Ee'

 

[cnichols]

Thanks Dood!

At least I got some of them right! LOL

Thought maybe it would be a "B" but wasn't sure.

The "ch" was selected since a large portion of the rabbits I got are cali marked. Assumed that they were from similar breeding but no way to know for sure, since I don't know who the parents are.

Ah, and I picked "e" since they are (basically) white rabbits with black markings. Was not aware that all broken blacks have at least one full extension gene.

As far as the "w" .. well duh I have no idea why I picked "W" instead of "w" lol

This is all so fascinating! :icecream:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

If you breed them to a coloured rabbit, half the kits will have the broken pattern.

Unless you get an odd-numbered litter of kits. :lol:

Good point!

:rotfl:

 

[Wyldrose]

Then there are those times Mother nature gets in there and messes things around

The top one looks like the hotot nethie cross I lost this spring. I see lots of eye liner bunnies here now and wonder how many are part hotot.

 

[Dood]

Hotot's are broken 'En_" Dutch 'dudu' so if Dutch are popular in your area it's possible. The broken 'En _' Vienna 'V_' can have a similar effect as the forum member Bad Habit discovered when she tried the cross and of course there are the charlies and false charlies as well.

There are not many Dutch in my area but lots of broken's and Vienna marked so I now wonder if the rabbits advertised as "Hotot's" don't actually have the Dutch gene in them, especially when they have the 'rare' chestnut or blue eye rings.

 

[cnichols]

Ok, so I have 4 "charlie" marked rabbits. 3 bucks and 1 doe

On the "self" side I have 2 black bucks and 1 REW doe.

All the rest of my rabbits are marked in some manner (either vienna or cali).

If you had to choose only 1 of these charlie marked rabbits to keep, which would it be? Buck or Doe?

 

[Dood]

To what end?

If you want all broken patterned kits then keep a buck as all his offspring will carry the gene.

If you want some solids as well as a few broken then keep a doe so you can get solids from your REW or Cali and broken from her.

On the "self" side I have 2 black bucks and 1 REW doe

a REW is not considered a self and are usually agouti/chestnut under their white coats, unless you know she came from two self parents you cannot tell her true colour.

 

[Bad Habit]

Depends. I personally want a doe, because broken isn't COD for lionheads, and the broken are just personal preference. I only need one litter with them every few months.

If you want a lot of brokens, keep a buck. He can have multiple litters a month.

 

[cnichols]

Thanks folks.

I had typed out a really long post before, then realized that I was typing it on the wrong darn thread, lol. So I just came here (the correct thread) and summarized what I had already typed.

I had been leaning towards keeping the doe. Since I really don't want oodles of broken kits. My thought was if I kept a buck, I'd be getting a whole lot more brokens then I really want. But if I keep the doe, I'd only have her litters. Besides that, I really don't have what I would consider a real candidate for breeding with a buck, while I know I have two self black bucks.

Was looking for confirmation on what I was "thinking about" doing. Got it from both of you! Thanks a million!

One day I will learn to trust my instincts. Until then, I'm gonna ask lol