What age should a rabbit reach to know if show quality?

[WhWRabbitry]

I am new to breeding show quality Mini Lops. (We just had our first healthy litter born yesterday!)
With my pet quality Mini Lops I let people place a deposit to reserve a rabbit at 5 weeks old and then they pick up at 8 weeks.

I'm wondering though with a show quality line if 5 weeks old is too young to be able to tell if a rabbit is "showable" vs "show quality". I will vary the prices a bit according to their type/showability. What age do those that sell show quality wait until to take deposits (if you take them)?

I've already had one opinion of someone I really respect who waits until 8 weeks but I'd still like to hear what others do too. Does anyone take deposits as early as 5 weeks with show quality lines?

Thanks!

 

[ottersatin]

Hello Wh,
I will answer this the best I know how:
A Rabbit is made in the nestbox! When you first check your kits
look at what they are showing. If they possess what you feel is GOOD /Excellent type
something that shows promise, hang on to that Rabbit. Give it a chance to mature
Rabbits will go into a lanky look for a time, but like young children if given the chance
they will come into themselves. The body they had in the nestbox will!
Miracle of miracles reappear as they mature. If you can show a junior and it losses
its body, it will be back when it reaches its full growth/maturity.
Just because a rabbit was produced by an excellent Show individual
does not mean that it will be as good as or better than it's predecessor!
If it were that easy, everybody would have Super Duper Champion Stock.
It takes dedication and hard work to produce excellent/constantly top winning Stock.
With proper breeding and culling choices anyone can produce a WINNER!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Schipperkesue]

This may not answer your question, but this is the way I look at it. I think deciding on what is showable (no DQs) vs. show quality is something you learn to do with experience. If this is your first litter I would ask a mentor to help evaluate them, and then when you show them listen carefully to the judge and ask questions. When I started with show rabbits I wanted to keep my best stock and not sell them away. As a newbie the distinction will be hard to make but with time and experience you will develop an eye for a good rabbit, not just in your breed but in other breeds as well.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

The body they had in the nestbox will!
Miracle of miracles reappear as they mature. If you can show a junior and it losses
its body, it will be back when it reaches its full growth/maturity.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

I had not been told this. That is helpful, for sure! Thank you Ottersatin.
So as I have those more experienced than me help evaluate the body type (as in Mini Lops that is the most important) when they are very young this should give me a good idea of which ones at least have higher potential showing wise, correct? So are we talking like in the first week of life?

This may not answer your question, but this is the way I look at it. I think deciding on what is showable (no DQs) vs. show quality is something you learn to do with experience. If this is your first litter I would ask a mentor to help evaluate them, and then when you show them listen carefully to the judge and ask questions. When I started with show rabbits I wanted to keep my best stock and not sell them away. As a newbie the distinction will be hard to make but with time and experience you will develop an eye for a good rabbit, not just in your breed but in other breeds as well.

Thanks for your reply too Schipperkesue! I really appreciate it. I'm honestly not sure that we are ever going to participate in shows ourselves. However showing is big in our area and I want to be a knowledgeable seller for those that will be purchasing from me for showing and be knowledgeable on pricing them appropriately.
I also want to be able to tell which doe I should keep to breed in the future.

 

[DBA]

From what I have learned it can take 3 months or more to properly evaluate a mini lop.

 

[Prisma]

What was the mature time table that the breeder you got your show breeding rabbits from said? Some lines, I know they are ML but even they can be horrid, can take a very long time to finally grow out and go through several ugly stages. Its been a while, but I did obvious dq's or strong faults (pinched hq, undercut, lacking hq width) at 5-8 weeks, waited until jr ugly passed about 5-7 months then picked again, showed if was going to or bred and repeated. A stellar one would go on for showing longer of course, not so much cycle through to improve next generation. I try to move out 40-60% of my herd a year, would do more if I could, but with these HLs taking up to 2 yrs to mature and be worth showing its been a struggle. MR are having a cycle rate of about 75-85%, although I have introduced a line who's fur doesn't finish until after Sr prime so that may slow things down a bit.

If you don't like the maturing time of what you have, you can always breed for faster and introduce faster (with type of course) lines. It can take several generations to get any thing coming closer that is actually competitive though even with faster maturing rabbits as the best usually isn't sold but parts rabbits are (you get some with good and not so good, have to work on putting a good pair together to get better). Patients is key....

 

[WhWRabbitry]

The body they had in the nestbox will!
Miracle of miracles reappear as they mature. If you can show a junior and it losses
its body, it will be back when it reaches its full growth/maturity.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

I wanted to say thank you again Ottersatin - I also ran this thought by one of the show breeders I purchased from (who is very knowledgeable/has lots of success showing Mini Lops) and she totally agreed with you. She said you are absolutely right that what they are as babies in the nestbox is the best indication of what they will be when full grown/mature. She said it can just be sometimes tricky in evaluating them as they are so wiggly. She also re-evaluates around 6 weeks before they go through the "ugly stage".

That said I feel like if I learn to evaluate them well as babies I may not change much when I allow people to choose/place a deposit - maybe just change it to 6 weeks instead of 5.

Thanks to everyone else for your feedback as well. My question is answered.

 

[ottersatin]

When you choose your breeders,
or purchase them and we all do at one point or another.
NEVER breed two Rabbits with the same fault together!
I have purchased Rabbits for a particular part I wished to improve.
If you have a Doe or Buck with an excellent hindquarter, but poor shoulder.
Breed that Rabbit to a Rabbit that may have a poor hindquarter but an
excellent shoulder: Breed those two together. You are trying to fit all the
puzzle pieces together to make the "as close as possible" perfect whole.
There is NO perfect Rabbit! When one arrives the whole game is OVER!
When breeding we are trying to produce as good as and hopefully better than the parent.
It IS a tough game! With perseverance all things are possible.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[dangerbunny]

Hollands are an especially slow growing rabbit but I tend to grow out a promising litter over three months. I will not buy a rabbit under 6 months again, as I have had several not finish out as well as I hoped.

You can pick out your favorite baby but if you are serious about showing I would let your best mature before making decisions, for example that adorable 6 week old baby might have adorable lopped ears now but might develop donkey ears as it matures while an airplane ear baby might have a beautiful head, crown and ears when it is grownup...

 

[WhWRabbitry]

When you choose your breeders,
or purchase them and we all do at one point or another.
NEVER breed two Rabbits with the same fault together!
I have purchased Rabbits for a particular part I wished to improve.
If you have a Doe or Buck with an excellent hindquarter, but poor shoulder.
Breed that Rabbit to a Rabbit that may have a poor hindquarter but an
excellent shoulder: Breed those two together. You are trying to fit all the
puzzle pieces together to make the "as close as possible" perfect whole.
There is NO perfect Rabbit! When one arrives the whole game is OVER!
When breeding we are trying to produce as good as and hopefully better than the parent.
It IS a tough game! With perseverance all things are possible.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

Great info! Fortunately the breeders I purchased from explained this to me also and took strengths and weaknesses into account when helping put a pair together for me. Fortunately the buck I have (though as you said - none are perfect) has all around very good body type.

 

[RR MiniSatins]

I am still relatively new to the breeding and showing game, 3 years now, and I'm finally starting to see my lines become more consistent and my eye getting better at picking who to keep. Thanks Ottersatin for your timely advice as I was just beginning to get a handle on picking in the nest box then letting them go through the uglies before the next cut. I am trying it with the current litters and I'm going to anxiously await how it turns out. I think when I was just starting I probably let a lot of nice kits go because when they got ugly I gave up on them.

 

[Zinnia]

I just wanted to say thanks to the poster and all who responded. I have been trying to evaluate mine at different stages and I'm so grateful I can across this thread!

There's always an awesome kit in the box. Better than the rest until they grow up a bit and.... then I second guess my judgement. I'm going to start keeping the ones worth watching for a longer time before culling.

Great thread!

 

[WhWRabbitry]

I just wanted to say thanks to the poster and all who responded. I have been trying to evaluate mine at different stages and I'm so grateful I can across this thread!

There's always an awesome kit in the box. Better than the rest until they grow up a bit and.... then I second guess my judgement. I'm going to start keeping the ones worth watching for a longer time before culling.

Great thread!

Well I'm so glad I asked the question and glad it was not only helpful to me but to you also Zinnia!

 

[LopLover]

This is my two sense worth. I do an initial cull at 8 weeks for DQs, then again at 3 months. Then again at five. From my experience, Mini Lops are slow developers and some may take up to 2 years to fully mature. It all depends on how your lines grow. Lops, though, tend to go through the gang lies worse than in most breeds. My advice, after the initial cull, throw them in a cage and don't look at them for a few months. I had a buck that was very ugly and I thought that there was no way he's ever be anything. He's my new herd buck. Showed him last Saturday and he took 2/7 as a 3 month old. They'll change a lot. Patience is key.

 

[Ramjet]

From what I'm reading here , the bottom line here is that you aren't going to be offering "Show Quality Lops" at 8 weeks , you may have some that have "Show Potential" but stating that an 8 week old rabbit is of show quality is misleading. At that point , its just passed (or not) the first cull.

Technically , any rabbit that doesn't have a DQ and is of an accepted variety can be shown .... that doesn't mean its worth showing or has the potential to do well.