UPDATED 07-04-2013 Need suggestions/help

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Desert Rose Rabbits

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UPDATE 7/4/13
Alrighty... knock on wood but Doe A is looking MUCH better today. While her eye is still a watery, and the third eyelid is still visible, there is NO creamy or white puss!! Still no sneezing.

Both does are drinking tons of water, but the temps here are well over 100, so I'm not at all surprised. They're both pigs and are loving the extra grassy hay. The woman I got them from said she never fed anything but pellets, and even then, she fed the cheapest she could find at any given time so there wasn't anything that was fed with any sort of regularity.

Anyways, I know it's hard to see in the pics, but her eye looks amazing. Best part is that her poops, so far, still look normal even with the food change and the addition of a small amount of greens. Same goes for Doe B. Hopefully I can get these two in reasonable shape before their litters get here.

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07/03/13



Hey everyone. So, I did something that I shouldn't have done today, and brought home a couple of does. Yes, they themselves were planned for over a week. What I shouldn't have done, though, was bring them home. The woman I got these rabbits from does NOT care for her bunnies. She's in the process of getting rid of all her rabbits and her supplies and had a lot of rabbits to choose from. I made the stupid decision to trust the pictures she sent me when I shouldn't have. Anyways, long story short, despite the potential consequences, after seeing the condition of these two I couldn't leave them in her care. Not at all, so home they came.

The woman claims both does are 'healthy' and both does are most likely pregnant... roughly a week along. She apparently put ALL of her rabbits, including the bucks, in some colony pens she had and din't care who hooked up with who, so we're dealing, most likely with two pregnant does when we weren't expecting it. We weren't planning on any litters for at least two or more months.

That aside, this is what I need help with... We don't really have an Rabbit-Savvy vets here in town, and all of my self-vet knowledge relates to horses and rats.

Doe A: Bottom of feet are covered in dried poop. I feel she's underweight. Most likely pregnant. The key thing here, is that she has one weepy slightly swollen eye where the third eyelid doesn't retract all the way (there's also a minimal white discharge). So far no sneezing. Her pelt looks horrible and REALLY lacks luster. However, though, she's eating and taking cilantro from my hand. Overall, seems quite active. I cleaned up her eye as soon as we got home and wiped her down quickly after I trimmed her nails. No signs of diarrhea and her vent looks good. Teeth look good and are not overgrown or oddly shaped.


Doe B: Overall, all things considered, aside from a lackluster coat, she seems ok. She's eating, even a little from my hand. She has reasonable mass to her, and again, most likely pregnant. Gave her a quick wipe down as well and trimmed her nails. No signs of diarrhea, and her vent area is clean. I did note, though, that she has what appears to be a 'healing' abscess. Now, it doesn't look like abscesses I've seen in other animals in the past, so I'm really thinking that this was an injury due to a fight, but I'm not sure. I pulled a huge scab off of it to see what I was dealing with and it has fresh skin as well as what looks like a 'bite' wound that's healing, not a hole like you see with abscesses. I did a warm compress on it just in case, but otherwise left it alone.

With Doe A, I had some Terramycin Ophthalmic Ointment on hand (something I have regularly due to a bird with chronic corneal ulcers. No worries about contamination, I have a system!) and after cleaning her eye up went ahead and put some on the eye.

Ideally, since she doesn't appear to be sniffling or sneezing and doesn't have any nasal discharge, I wanted to treat her at home rather than stressing her out with another 1-1.5 hour car ride with no AC in 100+ degree weather. I figured that I'd keep both girls in quarantine and well away from 'Buck' (who, incidentally may be renamed to Foreman from That 70's Show since he's so... twitchy). Also, they both smell funky. I've never had a rabbit smell before... even my bucks. I was always told not to bathe them, but Doe A, at the least, needs to be bathed. Is it one of those only wet the area that needs cleaning kind of thing?

Any suggestions on how to get these two back in shape for their most likely upcoming litters? For Doe A, any suggestions on further home treatment? I'm used to 'farm medicine' where we only use the vet when it's something we can't handle on our own. The only antibiotics safe for rabbits that I have right now is 100mg capsules of Doxy, and then the Terramycin ointment.
 

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oh the poor thing, she looks a real mess doesn't she.

I can't suggest a treatment beyond what you are doing right now.

I would wonder if in a colony situation if she didn't manage to get hurt somehow.
 
Hi Kitty!

:welcomewagon:

Welcome to RabbitTalk. :)

Kitty102":1h7hpt61 said:
despite the potential consequences, after seeing the condition of these two I couldn't leave them in her care.

Let me say now, I wish this was not your first post, because you aren't going to want to hear this... but my recommendation would be to take them back. Rabbit raising should be fun and relatively easy, and starting with two malnourished, immuno-compromised rabbits is not the best start. :(

Do you realize that the "potential consequences" can be the death of Buck/Foreman, and/or your rats?

Now, on to your other questions, in the event you decide to keep them;

In the best case scenario, Doe A has a laceration to her cornea, in which case treating it with non-steroidal ointment as you are doing would be my treatment choice. However, white snot, whether from the nose or eyes, generally indicates Pasteurella (contagious and often fatal), and I strongly suspect that is the case here. :(

Pasteurella often manifests in times of stress, and being tossed into a colony willy-nilly with a bunch of other rabbits certainly would cause quite a bit of stress.

Kitty102":1h7hpt61 said:
Her pelt looks horrible and REALLY lacks luster.

She likely has worms or coccidia.

Kitty102":1h7hpt61 said:
Doe B: I pulled a huge scab off of it to see what I was dealing with and it has fresh skin as well as what looks like a 'bite' wound that's healing, not a hole like you see with abscesses. I did a warm compress on it just in case, but otherwise left it alone.

That sounds plausible. Rabbit abscesses are filled with thick pasty pus, which is very sticky and hard to remove. Abscesses, again, usually indicate Pasteurella.

You can spray some Vetericyn or Blu-kote on it to aid in healing.

Kitty102":1h7hpt61 said:
Also, they both smell funky. I've never had a rabbit smell before... even my bucks. I was always told not to bathe them, but Doe A, at the least, needs to be bathed. Is it one of those only wet the area that needs cleaning kind of thing?

They probably smell because they were not kept in sanitary conditions. At this point I wouldn't really recommend bathing them and adding yet more stress. Dusting them down with baking soda might be a better option to knock down the smell and remove some of the dirt. Putting straw or pine shavings in their cages might help clean them up a bit too.

Kitty102":1h7hpt61 said:
I'm used to 'farm medicine' where we only use the vet when it's something we can't handle on our own. The only antibiotics safe for rabbits that I have right now is 100mg capsules of Doxy, and then the Terramycin ointment.

Most people who raise rabbits as livestock don't seek veterinary care, so you are in good company. Aside from the ointment, I wouldn't recommend antibiotic therapy.

Do keep them quarantined for at least thirty days after the last symptoms are gone.

Good luck with the girls. I hope my dire evaluation of them is incorrect, and you will soon have two healthy does, and possibly litters of nice healthy kits. :clover:
 
@MamaSheepdog

My thoughts were along yours. As to the Pasteurella, that's what I was thinking and know the mostly likely results. When I was younger, we dealt with a large outbreak at a rabbitry I was helping out at and we suffered the loss of 3/4 of the herd. It was horrible, but a valuable lesson.

Question... my understanding is that Pasteurella is much like Mycoplasmosis in rats in that nearly the entire domestic population has been exposed to it and are carriers. Is this so? The internet is full of so much misinformation.

I'm on the fence post about taking them back... if she will even do so... sending them back just doesn't sit well with me as I'd be sending them back to a woman who most likely will just toss them back into the herd or resell them again. If we hold onto these does, and cull is the meat still edible? It sits better with me to cull and 'use' them versus taking them back to the person that caused all this.

EDIT TO ADD: nevermind about the meat question... changing my search parameters got me the info I was looking for.
 
Hi, Kitty!

I don't really have much of anything to add to what MSD suggested... except to say that if you think you will take them back, really it is much more humane to put them down if you can. :(

I wouldn't bathe at this point either. I have bathed a (baby) rabbit before, but it is a stressful experience for the rabbit. She may not be able to take any more stress right now.

Practice excellent quarantine. Beyond excellent. Don't even approach them until after you are finished caring for everybody else. Before caring for your other animals again, wash up and change clothes.

Hopefully, the eye bit is a colony injury, and not pasteurella.

They will eventually stop smelling funky. The baking soda might help.

Poor buns! :(

You obviously have your eyes wide open; you've dealt with pasteurella before. Let your prior experience help guide you.
 
@MissM

I highly doubt they'll go back. Hubby wants to take them back, but I'm just not comfortable with it. I'd rather cull myself than have them go back into that situation.
 
Kitty102":msgh7f7v said:
Question... my understanding is that Pasteurella is much like Mycoplasmosis in rats in that nearly the entire domestic population has been exposed to it and are carriers. Is this so? The internet is full of so much misinformation.

That is the belief. Not specifically that they are carriers, per se, but that they have had exposure.

Certain strains are deadly days after symptoms appear, while others are not as virulent, but cause extensive damage over time.

Kitty102":msgh7f7v said:
I'm on the fence post about taking them back... if she will even do so... sending them back just doesn't sit well with me as I'd be sending them back to a woman who most likely will just toss them back into the herd or resell them again. If we hold onto these does, and cull is the meat still edible? It sits better with me to cull and 'use' them versus taking them back to the person that caused all this.

I suspected you were raising for meat, but was not sure. But since that is your plan, I personally would cull them for the table or your dogs and cats. Discard the head and lungs so your pets don't contract it. Dogs and cats can get Pasteurella, but unlike rabbits, they have better blood flow to the sinuses and can be treated successfully with antibiotics.

I truly am sorry- I know how it is to want to "save" an animal from its circumstances, and heal it. But I think you are setting yourself up for heartache if you keep them. :(

Where did you get your buck? Is it possible to buy some does from the same source? Inbreeding and linebreeding are common in rabbits to set type, so don't be afraid to get related animals to start your herd.
 
Unfortunately, she doesn't have any mature does at the moment, and all she does have a reds. She's gotten rid of anything but red (that's how I lucked out with my buck. Heck of a drive but a beautiful boy) I really like the white Satins (we're breeding for meat and pelts). Buck is a BEW so I guess, if I remember my genetics well enough, he could be hiding just about anything. Hmm... curious about what I'd get. I'll have to dig out my basic genetics notes and do some research on bunny'etics. Good to know that inbreeding and linebreeding are just as common in the rabbit world as in the rat world!
 
Wow!!! What an improvement! :clap2:

Giving them boxes was a good idea- I think it reduces stress levels if they have somewhere a little protected to go. :)
 
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