Ugh, stupid doe. Help please!

[Epic]

So my NZ x Flemish mix doe had five kits 8 days ago. I had to bring her in to feed the kits because she didn't wanna take care of them. So they have been getting along fine, but the doe is really stressed. She had a litter at her previous home, but didn't take care of them. So she has like no mothering instincts. :evil:

She suddenly looks like she has a wet nose, like slightly damp, but you touch it and it's dry. She doesn't have any matting on the paws, she hasn't sneezed at all. So snuffles is NOT a concern at all, I haven't brought in any new rabbits anyhow.

Anyways, she normally dives into her pellets, but today she just wanted to eat her hay and carrots. She is eating and drinking. She is going to the washroom normally, but her flesh condition is very poor at the moment.

Thoughts? She doesn't seem to be producing much milk either, if any. I fed the babies and they still look thin.


I don't have any other lactating does, I have a litter due in two days, but there will be an age difference in the kits.

I'm at a loss of what to do. She is definitely gone when her kits are weaned.

 

[akane]

Bringing the doe inside is a bad idea. It stresses the doe both being moved and the temp change. You can cause illness bringing animals in an out like that. The kits should be taken to the doe where they will sit in their warm nest while she is allowed to feed them in her cage where she feels safe. You'll probably have a lot better luck unless she absolutely refuses and you are having to hold her down.

As to the condition and milk, hay and carrots is not a diet for a lactating doe. Especially if it isn't good quality legume (alfalfa or clover) hay. The carrots should be cut down. They really aren't even a good food to feed at all but can be used as a treat. Try adding oats (any type so long as it's not instant or flavored oatmeal) and BOSS(black oil sunflower seeds). These are the little black sunflower seeds you feed to birds. If you get the hulled kind that is just the sunflower meat the protein level is around 20% although the hulls do add some nutrition so most feed them whole. These are usually more desirable than pellets and add a lot of fat and calories to keep on condition and produce milk. If that doesn't do it you can buy pretty much any baby animal formula (I prefer to stick with the herbivores for the herbivores though) and sprinkle it over anything she's willing to eat. The 2 does I've done that with would dive in to the powder and it has everything needed to make milk since it is a milk substitute even if it doesn't quite match rabbit milk.

 

[Epic]

I am fully aware that a lactating doe should not just be eating carrots and hay, she has pellets, and she gets both oats & BOSS in her feed. She doesn't want to eat it is the trouble. She is getting a really good quality alfalfa hay right now.

So I should move the babies to the cage? Will they get chilled?

Thanks!

 

[MaggieJ]

It could be she is stressed from the moving back and forth to the house. I'd leave the doe in her own cage and take the kits to her twice a day for feeding. You can leave them in with her while you do other chores. Check their tummies to make sure she is feeding them or hang about where you can see what is happening.

This may sound like a stupid question, but have you checked her water supply? I don't know if you use bottles or crocks, but more than one rabbit has been brought low by a non-functioning water bottle or nozzle. If they can't drink, they won't eat. (Please don't take offense... there was a recent case on a forum where the vet bills for a dehydrated rabbit ran close to $1000, all due to a bad bottle. The owner felt so guilty she paid more than she could well afford to make things right.)

 

[ladysown]

eight day old babies are just fine in the cold.

The issue you are having right now is you have a doe who isn't eating as she should.. I'd move her back outside. Leave the kits in the house if you are unsure of their stamina.

You can take the kits out EARLY in the morning and leave them out all day. bring them in late at night if you've a need to do so.

BUT you need to get that doe back on track and producing milk.
SO
1. put her outside in her normal surrounding.
2. feed her things that encourage her to eat. Parsley, oatmeal, Boss, Pellets, good hay, Think green, think calcium content.
3. keep encouraging her to feed her kits.

NOW.. If she fails on you...(as in is no longer able to feed her kits)
1. you can supplement off the other doe who is due for a few days...get those kits to two weeks and with KMR or goat's milk and oatmeal/good hay you should be able to pull them through. She can morning feed her kits (which will hold them for a day) and you can put the fosters on her in the evening. IT's a gamble as you don't know if the 'to kindle doe' is a once or twice a day feeder.

I just read of a person who syringed fed 9 day to 3 week old kits using a wash cloth and a syringe. (the kits sucked the washcloth which minimized the threat of aspiration).

2. find someone willing to risk fostering those kits for you. (you don't know if your doe is fighting something and you don't know if there's been transference to the kits).

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

check her for mastitis

 

[akane]

I am fully aware that a lactating doe should not just be eating carrots and hay

Catering to her with things like carrots though may well make her not want to eat her other foods and you never mentioned she had supplements beyond pellets which many will readily stop eating just because they don't feel like it. If she's eating alfalfa hay I'd stop all treats and make her eat her other feed if she wants something more. The carrots aren't adding much usefulness to the diet anyway besides a bunch of a sugar and some vit a.

I also would repeat with everyone else to stop taking the doe inside, they are quite territorial and get upset about such things unless they are well handled house rabbits, and start taking the kits outside. You don't have to leave them there if you think they will chill but with a nest even if it weren't suitable for the weather they would stay warm enough for hours by their own body heat. Most put them in the cage when they do chores and then take them in when done or if the doe is too nervous around people to feed leave them until evening when they go back out to do evening chores and bring them back in before the temps drop for the night.

 

[Jessykah]

If the nest is good, and has plenty of fur to help them stay insulated, I would leave the kits outside all the time (unless they are really weak). Moving the kits from indoors to outdoors all the time isn't good for them. It's equivalent to our calves getting a cold because the weather keeps going from freezing to above freezing lately. They either like it to be steadily on the cold side, or steadily warm. For one of my does, who I couldn't trust with a litter, I put the nestbox with her while I did chores (she was eager to feed them then), then I put the nestbox into a cat carrier and locked the door. It kept the kits outside in the environment they were used to, while protecting them from a cat that liked to eat baby rabbits. Just my opinion. But only you can judge the state of the kit's health....sorry I cannot help with the doe issue though, but I agree to not feed carrots. Maybe offer her some oats and BOSS separately from the pellets? And offer a mineral/salt lick block? I don't know.