Two are with foster mom but this one..well... *edited title*

[ButtonsPalace]

My lovely doe Bibi had 3 kits today? From Merlin *At least I know who the baby daddy is lol (I am not saying this in a negative or judgemental way about anyone who doesn't know who their babies dad is.)* So I went over to their cage to see if they needed food and/or water. Well I looked down in and it looked sorta like Bibi exploded fur, then I saw the baby on top of the bedding wiggling over towards dad's side of the cage almost in it. I reached down and grabbed the little cutie and put it in my Popple Popper as I call it, *At one point spent about $200 some dollars on fabric to make baby blankets. They never sold so that was a lot of wasted money but good gifts? I have a bunch of left over fabric and no clue what to do with it lol. So I had this nice warm soft fabric and I somehow cute and tied knots in it and it turned into a tied bag with a strap to put around your neck for easier carrying* I push my does into letting me touch babies straight from day 1. I'm very pushy about being touchy because I feel like later on it'll help. If I have something wrong with a kit it'd be terrible not to be able to help because I'm not bonded with my doe.

If you're here to hear about babies start here >>>> 1st baby was found like I said crawling on top of the bedding towards dad's half of the cage and he loves babies (He's very interested and I always show him his babies and he'll groom them and check them out) So I took the first baby upstairs to show everyone and tell them the good news that we had a baby (Baby 1 looks like a possible Harli, It's grey and orange or brown?) After showing everyone I knew I needed to clean up mom's cage of the fur/hay mess everywhere and try to find some clean hay for in her nest box. It just so happens I decided to start my search in the back right corner, as I was digging I discovered baby number 2 (Not sure what the name of the color is but it's solid white other than (Broken Black) So I picked up baby number 2 and then I saw baby number 3 (Grey?) eyes and I think a spot on it's back.)

Now on to my question. She doesn't appear to have dropped her milk which I know sometimes it takes a bit for it to do so. But she because I didn't know she was pregnant *At all* she had surprise babies not in a nest box *This was my fault I palpated her at one point and thought I felt a kit but because I did it about at 2 weeks into her pregnancy I wasn't sure that it was a kit and decided it must just be her poo or something.* Well this morning after finding the three found a small tote that is low enough that she could get in it and small enough to fit in her cage, she keeps pushing it out of her way trying to find her babies even though I've tried several times to show her she keeps shoving the nest away. Any help? I have a doe with 3 or 4 day old kits but she already has 5 I don't wanna add another 3. Should I take them out? Should I watch her? I've never had this happen before so any and all advice will be very greatly appreciated.

 

[macksmom98]

Rabbits can be very picky about where they want anything in their cage, like feed bowls and hay, even their babies. She may just be frustrated that they are not where she would like them to be. If i was you, I would keep them in with her and see if she will eventually be ok with where you have placed them and try to feed them on her own. If you do notice they look thin and unfed in a couple of days, I would assist with feeding by putting her on your lap and allowing the babies to nurse from underneath her, putting them in between your legs. I also always handle my babies at least once a day from the time they are born, that's a good habit to get into if you are selling them as pets. But I try to allow nature to do its thing and for the Does to have a great chance to handle it all on their own, intervening only if necessary and I will not ever hand feed unless its an extreme emergency.....another thing that would be helpful to know-is this her first litter? Building a good nest is a sign of good mothering, and if she didnt do that it could be cause for concern, but not necessarily. Most of all-CONGRATS on these little surprises!

 

[MaggieJ]

Uh... Buttons, your post kind of rambles on a bit, so I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. If it is about the safety of the kits in the nest box (tote) because the doe keeps pushing it around, this is a valid concern but easily fixed.

Take the tote out, put the kits somewhere safe for a few minutes and then punch, drill or burn (with a hot nail or something similar) a four holes (2 sets of two, quite close together) in the side of the tote, fairly near the top. Then using either zip ties or wire, anchor the tote to the wire so it can't be moved around.

To the doe, it is an unfamiliar object. She may resent it's presence or she may regard it as a toy. But if she can't move it around, the babies should be safe.

You doe may not be done kindling. Depending on the breed, three is a small litter and she may have more sometime in the next 24 hours or so. The kits should be okay for today without feeding, but if she doesn't have milk for them the next day, it might be best to give them a feeding from the other doe, if she will co-operate. Missing one feeding will not harm her own kits.

Good luck with them! And try not to worry. Most of these things soon sort themselves out. :good-luck:

 

[macksmom98]

Maggie J is correct, I have had a doe kindle 24 hours apart, and kits born on 2 different days. And anchoring the box is great advice!

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Sorry for my rambling. I tried not too but as we can see it happened and bad

She is a Lionhead so I doubt there'll be more than the 3 of them... She had them in the back right corner of her cage where she had spent probably her entire pregnancy diggin for a nest. I don't know if I've said or not but they were under quite a bit of a mix of fur/hay/equinepine.

My issue was I don't believe she knows where they are now. She keeps digging in different corners like she's searching for them. I have showed her where they are the best I could (I uncovered the babies and put her in the box and held one up to her then put it back down so she might see the wiggling, I also put her directly on top of them hoping that one might try to latch because I feel like if she fed them it would kinda be like the missing link was found). I will watch them over the next few days and make sure all is good and that her milk has dropped. I keep getting distracted so I hope all this makes sense. If not please lemme know and I'll try to remember what I might've wanted to add..

 

[MaggieJ]

Once a doe chooses a nest-site, she can be quite insistent on using it instead of the provided box. If she doesn't figure it out, you may have to give in and improvise a nest in the corner where she wants it.

I had this happen once. I took a nest-box sized cardboard box and left the sides that fit into the corner intact, except for the holes for anchoring it to the cage. The two sides exposed to the cage, I cut down to about 2-3 inches and put the nesting materials inside and then the kits. This gave the kits protection from drafts and helped contain them while at the same time allowed the doe to have her way about the location.

It worked quite well for me that time, but there is no guarantee that it would work for your doe. Sometimes you just have to be flexible and if one thing doesn't work, then try another.

As to prevention of this kind of situation, there is no substitute for knowing when the doe was bred and providing a proper nest box on Day 28 or sooner if she shows signs of early nest-building. Avoid putting it over her favourite potty corner, however, because this usually leads to her using it for a litter box.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Ok so turns out she knows where they are and her milk has dropped (Big plump bellies) But now my real issue is evident. She's still digging. I normally wouldn't mind but the issue is she's digging and the equine pine and everything else is being flung into the nest box. I tried moving it different places and she'll pull it out of the corner and dig. I thought about using zip ties and doing that but all she seems to want to do is dig and when she does dig it's a HUGE mess! Not only in the floor but in her box!

 

[MaggieJ]

Another possibility is to remove the nest box with the kits, keep it in a place safe from other pets, and take it to her morning and night for feeding. She'll probably stop digging in a day or two if it is related to kindling, but in the meantime she could unintentionally harm the kits.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Maggie J is correct, I have had a doe kindle 24 hours apart, and kits born on 2 different days. And anchoring the box is great advice!

I've had a doe do this too. She had one on 4-20 at 11 am and the other on 4-21 at around 11am as well. I put the box back in for the time in hopes that if she has another she has it in there. But I think I might take them out and feed them by getting her out and putting her on my lap. I hate to do it really but I am in favor of anything that is good for them.

I feel like as I get older that my English is getting worse. I'm Half-German and my parent's were divorced so I was raised by a German. Her grammar is terrible (Just like mine) If you listen to her talk she still has the accent I don't because most of my life has been lived here but yeah anyway. I hope you guys can understand me lol

 

[MaggieJ]

Why can't you just take the kits to the doe twice a day? That way, once she stops digging, you'll be able to return them to the cage for her to raise. In the long run, this should be a lot easier on you and better for the rabbits.

As for your English grammar, it's not so bad . . . and you're young enough for it to improve a lot if you work at it a bit. You like a challenge . . . and there are some very good websites that explain spelling, punctuation and points of grammar. Some of them are even entertaining. Good grammar is a big asset when job hunting.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

I don't do well in work environments >3< as much as I hate to say it I had an awful childhood and was very sheltered by abusive people in abusive relationships. I was in a lot of terrible relationships with guys who used me and I came to a point where I hate people and I don't trust but 3 people. Although I do like challenges! So grammar lessons I will do! I will definitely take the kits out. I just really wanted the first time momma to be able to raise her babies naturally but it don't seem to be working out too well ha..ha..ha... <br /><br /> -- September 1st, 2016, 9:35 pm -- <br /><br /> So I thought maybe just maybe she was trustable but nope. She threw dirt into the nest >O<!!! I should've knew better >u<....

 

[macksmom98]

I am sorry to hear about your abusive childhood, and would encourage you to not let it define you. I know you have been affected by violence and hurt and by no means is that ever ok, for anyone, especially a child. I am just hoping to be an encouragement so that if you do desire or need to get a job, just know that you can overcome those issues. I am glad that you see the value in grammar lessons, but I can usually understand what you are saying just fine. It will help you in lots of ways tho, so that is a great idea. In the meantime you have these bunnies to keep you sane and happy!

 

[MaggieJ]

While I was mulling over what to say to you, Buttons, macksmom posted some excellent advice for you.

It takes time and sometimes some help to put an abusive childhood behind you, but macksmom's comment about not letting your experiences define you is spot on! You are far more than just the result of those experiences and you can overcome the damage they did and go on to live the happy life you deserve.

We're pulling for you! :hooray:

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Thanks! Yeah it's hard not letting it define who you are sometimes. It's like my life is finally getting better and it's going good. Got my 3 little babies to take care of and all and speaking of them. Mom kicked one of them cutting it's hip open and a small spot on it's belly along with two nice bruises to the belly. I really don't think she has enough milk. I've gave her some dandelion but she don't seem to interested in it... I made some condensed milk by boiling milk down to half the initial amount (Apparently what you're supposed to do?) Well I used the recipe someone posted on here (Heritage? I think I don't remember) But I made that and fed two of the three quite a bit. The third is the little damaged one I haven't got but the one to pee and that kinda worries me. I don't want these cuties to die I would feel terrible if they did. Is there any certain way to do it that works better? Because I'm doing it for like 20-30 minutes and no pee.. <br /><br /> -- September 2nd, 2016, 2:49 pm -- <br /><br /> It is ok if they don't pee every time I feed right? I'm watching a youtuber who is raising babies without momma. Said they keep a chart to keep up with when everyone gets feed and such?

 

[macksmom98]

Hand feeding is really difficult and often has adverse results. I would avoid it at all costs. It's not like hand feeding other animals. She might not have enough milk, but I would try the assisted feeding and see if the kits end up with full bellies. I don't know how one could be sure there wasn't enough milk unless they do that, or just wait it out and notice they aren't full in the nest. I don't know about the pee thing, other than they need to be peeing. Hope they do well, I would take them away from her for sure, if they are getting injured by her, and try returning them to feed or assist in their feeding.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

I assist feed but I'm giving them extra as a filler almost because she starts getting uncomfortable and the babies start bopping around more and that's when I stop. It's only about a minute before this happens and their little tummies aren't nearly full and we can't hold her down but so long.

-- September 3rd, 2016, 12:35 pm --

So I happened to realize what I was doing finally! I had put the two babies in a different mom's fur because there wasn't enough of their moms fur to use. So I brought the other mom (Her name is Turtle *Because, I like turtles*) So I brought in Turtle and set her on the pool table where the babies where and I put my hand in the nest and wiggled my finger causing them to fuss because I am disturbing them. Turtle runs over with all means of attacking me and stands over the babies. (I was in a rolly chair thankfully or else I may have suffered the consequences) I am watching the babies very carefully because they are a bit smaller than their foster siblings are. Both had nice plump bellies this morning! Turtle is a Silver Fox and I don't know if they are all this big because she's my only full grown doe but she's huge! Bigger than my NZ/Chin does. She has all her babies covered even though she is caring for 7 now! (I am feeding her more now you guys, I was feeding a cup I am now feeding about 2 cups, 2 more babies eating and the growing babies make a big difference.) <br /><br /> -- September 3rd, 2016, 12:57 pm -- <br /><br /> Look at me totally forgot the most important part. Ok... So there is the baby that Bibi kicked and bruised I am now feeding it from Turtle as well as the two fosters. My only issue with it is it's huge cut on it's leg keeps coming back open. Would it be ok to use some crappy band-aids to hold it together or something? I keep putting plantain salve on it and it'll close up but then when baby kicks out it comes back open. What can I do about this? Because I'm watching carefully and trying to hold it's foot up when it nurses so it don't stretch it but I can't always do that. Baby is still very happy, healthy, squirmy, normal baby *Other than the cut*

 

[MaggieJ]

Does the cut bleed when it comes open, Buttons? A picture would really help, but if that isn't feasible, then a more accurate description would suffice. How long is the cut and how deep? Does it seem to be infected?

The main problem with bandages is that they will stick to any fur the baby has and may be difficult to remove. I'd like to know more before recommending them.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Tried a band-aid and couldn't get it to stick for anything. It's not bleeding anymore. But it looks like the skin has healed up separately? I'm trying to keep it together with plantain salve. I'll have to wait until the batteries for the camera are charged before I can take a pic but I definitely will. I've been feeding him from momma and I took him to a different mom who got it to go pee and poo which is amazing! Pics coming soon...

 

[MaggieJ]

Regarding young kits needing to pee . . . Many people now feel that kits kept in litters will by their movements stimulate each other enough to pee. It is only a kit kept separately that may need help. Kudos to the momma rabbit who helped this little one out.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

I've figured out how to do it! Momma outside showed me I need to go from tail up. That works very well.

There is the main cut and how it looks. Baby isn't crying in pain when it moves anymore but I'm really not sure what to do about this. Baby is happy and thriving and wiggling all about. He gets fed from momma in the mornings and before I go to bed, baby also gets goat milk formula I made for it. I got baby filled up tonight and it was super happy and bouncy and it's tummy for the first time looked good and plump, also got him to pee in about 40 min after. Not too bad. It's pooping on it's own I've noticed so I'm kinda wondering now if mom had them hid for a few days before I found them? But I doubt it because after a few seconds of nursing she starts trying to kick off baby. It's kinda scary, I use the pool table to my advantage by putting a piece of soft cloth on her belly and using the edge of the pool table to hold her feet back while I allow baby to nurse. I don't know if it means anything or not but after about a minute the baby starts making a squeaking sound, IMHO it sounds like there's nothing left and baby is sucking as hards as it can but nothing is coming out, this is also when I have most of my issues with momma trying to kick the baby again...