Tooth infection??!!

[bikegurl]

This morning I go out to care for the rabbits, and what do I find? A sick rabbit. Of course it is the doe due in about a week. :x :evil:
This is so frustrating!!!

Anyway, I'm uncertain of how to treat what I think is going on. I'm also not really sure WHAT is going on...I'm just guessing.

She is pretty lethargic, with the right side of her face obviously swollen. Her eye is slightly bloodshot with a little bit of white crusties in the corner. She has nasal discharge; whitish and crusty, just in her nostrils. Her ears are VERY hot. Her head was tilted a little to the side, but I think it was from the pain, since it went upright as soon as she moved. She didn't drink her water during the night. She did eat the greens I had given her for dinner though.

Apparently there was rain during the night, and cool temperatures. The days have been upper 80s to 90s here this week.

I have quarantined her, and gave her a dish of water instead of her bottle. She may have drunk a little, but I'm not sure. She did tentatively nibble on some raspberry leaves, but it seems to hurt to use her mouth.

I really don't know what to do....any natural remedies for something like this?

I tried to look in her mouth, but couldn't open it. Her right jaw has swelling for sure...like lumpyness in the cheek.

 

[Phacelia]

I've never experienced anything like this, but it sounds like a pretty bad infection. Possibly Pasteurella?

If it were mine I would probably just terminally cull, but you can wait and see what the more experienced rabbit raisers have to say first.

 

[bikegurl]

That is what I'm thinking....I just REALLY don't want to, so I was hoping someone would be able to tell me she'll pull through and it isn't actually as bad as I think it is.
Unfortunately, she isn't eating or drinking. And, I can't find a syringe, so I can't force water down her.

She keeps gently shaking her head...could it be ear related? (With cheek swelling and all) If an ear infection, would putting something like alcohol and vinegar into her ear help? Or Hydrogen peroxide? I'm just grasping at straws here....so these may be terrible ideas.

 

[Phacelia]

It sounds like the infection may have spread to multiple areas. Posting some pictures might help everyone pin down exactly what's going on.

I'm not sure I would put anything that caustic in the ear. You could always try melted coconut oil infused with garlic - both are antibacterial.

 

[Zass]

Maybe dental abscess with a secondary infection of who knows what?? Or maybe it's systemic pasteurella again and it just spread to more than one location.

Either way, I'm sorry that happened. It sounds really bad, and painful.
I'm not sure it's something your going to want to try and treat in a meat doe.

I can't tell you what to do with your rabbits since it's a personal choice, and not an easy one!
I can only say what I would do if I saw it in my herd, and that would be to I'd euthanize, quickly too, definitely before any kits are born.

 

[bikegurl]

Culled and autopsied....

I couldn't find anything wrong with her mouth...though bopping was the method of dispatch and that kinda messes up the whole head/jaw area somewhat.
She was HOT... I have never felt an animal so hot. Poor thing was burning up!
She had 14 kits. :shock: One cover by a first-timer! ( I guess that young buck from you, Zass, is a good one! Thanks!) The kits were actually starting to be born.... :?
Her liver was brownish and pale with a small white blotch on it.
Her stomach was very small (understandable, since she hadn't eaten).
Her small intestine was empty, except for a yellowish liquid.
Large intestine was full of liquid and seemed somewhat distended.
There were only like 2 or 3 poops in her guts...and they weren't perfectly round, either.

When I was rinsing off her pelt, I found what seems to be a Botfly larvae.
[album]3374[/album]

So...it seemed to be intestinal. She was acting normal at 8-8:30 last night, but very sick this morning around 7. Poisoning? Illness? Ideas?


And....would it be okay to eat her?
-- Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:02 pm --

Oh, yeah...this was Heather....I was going to cull her for unpleasant behavior, but decided to get another litter out of her first since her replacements aren't going to be breeding age for a while. So much for that...

 

[Zass]

If her intestines were so empty and her liver was pale, it sounds like she hasn't been eating enough for a while. Possibly pregnancy toxemia.

With all the other symptoms and the presence of the bot fly larva, I think, she was experiencing an overall immune system failure, and likely already close to death.

Thank you for not allowing her suffer.

Inspect the meat carefully, if the flesh looks and smells healthy she should be safe to eat. Just make sure she's fully cooked.

 

[bikegurl]

If her intestines were so empty and her liver was pale, it sounds like she hasn't been eating enough for a while. Possibly pregnancy toxemia.

With all the other symptoms and the presence of the bot fly larva, I think, she was experiencing an overall immune system failure, and likely already close to death.

Thank you for not allowing her suffer.

Inspect the meat carefully, if the flesh looks and smells healthy she should be safe to eat. Just make sure she's fully cooked.

The thing is, I know she ate yesterday. I also gave her greens at 8pm, when I checked her last evening. She dived right in to eating them, like normal. She has been eating amounts similar to the buck.
The only thing she didn't consume like normal was her water. None of the rabbits drink much during the day, since its been pretty warm. At night though, they usually drink lots. There was not a noticeable amount of water missing from her bottle this morning.

She was in the rabbit tractor with her litter for a number of weeks. I moved it at least twice a day, and rarely have it in the same spot twice. (rarely as in, it has happened 3 or 4 times) We had it in an area planted with Berseem clover, Dutch white clover, and rye grass. There are also weeds such as Queen Anne's lace, dandelions, ragweed, and a few others that I don't know the names of. The clovers did develop a dark spotting on the undersides of their leaves that I intended to research, but it hadn't happened yet.
A week or two before I moved her back into the cages, I had been briefly concerned about her; one morning I went out and she seemed to be acting lethargic. An hour or two later, she was acting more normal, and so I didn't worry about it as much as I probably should have. I was slightly concerned still, and that is part of the reason I moved her to the hutch. The other was that she was due in a couple weeks.

Could she have been slowly poisoned by eating something she shouldn't have? I guess we'll never know for sure...but it would really be nice to avoid it happening to another doe in the future...

Thanks for the responses and help. Sorry this is so long....I guess I sort-of started rambling... :|

 

[funnies50]

Oh Lord that's disgusting. I'm so sorry about the bunny.

 

[Zass]

It's possible she ate something that threw her off, rabbits have a sort of self perpetuating cycle...

If something causes gas, for example, eating can become painful.

Not eating can cause a gi slowdown which can go two really bad ways,

1: Intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which can result in death due to toxins produced, or perhaps bloat which rabbits rarely survive.

2 Gi stasis, which can result in death as well.

Ketosis usually seems more of a secondary condition to me, occurring after a gi slowdown or stasis makes maintaining proper blood glucose levels difficult.

I think pregnancy, and especially carrying very large litters can exacerbate the situation, making sudden death more likely.

Too rich of feed could also trigger such a cycle. Next time you see a doe even a little bit off, I recommend feeding as much plain old grass hay as she will take. It's cheap, and it seems to provide an excellent buffer.
As in, it seems harder to accidentally "mess up" the gi cycle of a rabbit that gets grass hay then one who doesn't. It definitely helps maintain gi motility.
Maybe all that dry fiber helps push out the wrong type of bacteria too, or provides a breeding ground for the right type. I'm not sure exactly what it does, maybe a little of everything. I do know it helps.

 

[bikegurl]

Wow. Ok, that is good to know. I have alfalfa/grass hay that I'm feeding them, but I guess mixed with clover and pellets that would be a little too rich. I was wondering how much of a problem feeding alfalfa hay would be, since I only see grass hay being recommended. I thought it was just a problem when feeding only pellets. These guys get some pellets, but I'm trying to have at least half their diet fresh greens. They also get a good amount of oats. But... The fresh greens are mainly clovers. So....that probably contributes to the overload of rich foods.
:x

Hmmmm....Grrrrr....I guess I need to find some grass hay.

 

[Zass]

I personally think you have the basis of a very good diet. I only recommended the grass hay as a way to help smooth things along and reduce chances of it happening in the future. ( Since you asked )

I also think, it may have had nothing to do with her diet. She was always a nervous type, and pregnancy stress alone could have done her in, and once the immune system goes down, they become a lot more susceptible to parasites of all kinds.

Cocci as a contributing factor shouldn't be ruled out either. A lot of people who keep their rabbits on grass or soil, especially in humid conditions, really struggle with that. It feels like east coast breeders in particular have more problems with that than west coast ones.


Kits are the most sensitive to both cocci and feed related problems though, and if you had a litter out there with her and all were healthy...I'd think it was the doe herself who was defective.