To wean or not to wean

[lpmorgens]

I have two kits that turned 8 weeks today. We were planning to start weaning them last week as we bred mom the week before, but they are all does and so happy together. But, mom is due in two weeks. I am wondering how crucial it is to wean the kits, although for all I know, they are no longer nursing, but enjoying being together. They eat all the time!

I read in the wild, they self-wean between 6 and 7 weeks. I am more concerned about the effect it will have on "mom" to be nursing so close to due date or if the current kits should be sharing a cage with new kits... ok, you guessed, I'm a total newbie, but that is why I am asking. I also want to make sure that, if the kits do remain, they are not nursing as this will obviously have an ill effect on newborn kits. We can certainly remove the current kits... we do plan to keep them.

I would like to know if anyone has actually experienced having two sets of kits in the same cage. I don't want to stress out the kits. Is there a way to see if they are still nursing? They never have nursed in front of us, so I think catching it in the act is impossible. I would love to find a way to simulate the natural weaning/separation that happens in the wild. Thanks.

 

[AmberRae]

I would think if you leave those kits in with the newborns, the newborns will be very negatively affected. The older kits will take all the milk. I also believe the mom needs a break between nursing before starting again. In the wild the mom abandons the kits at 4 weeks old and digs a new burrow for her new litter. I would shocked if the kids are not still nursing on her, but if they are you should see it. Mine chase their mom around to nurse until I seperate them.

 

[shazza]

actually in the wild they wean closer to 4 weeks. usually the doe is rebred immediately after kindling, so four weeks is about the time she'll be starting to seek out a new nest for the next litter. the last litter of the year may stay a bit longer, but generally by 6-8 weeks the doe has left the kits on their own. i wean my kits around 5 weeks. it's about this time that they are big enough that the cage is growing crowded and they aren't even trying to nurse anymore.

there's evidence that keeping a litter with a doe too long can cause stress to the doe. personally i have a doe that around 5 weeks she will begin to behave aggressively toward her kits, boxing and lunging at them when they get near her. naturally she would have left her kits by then, especially if she is bred, so i don't find it necessary to keep them in with her unless they are particularly small. i keep my growouts in a large "colony" hutch so they will need to be able to withstand any hazing given to them by any older rabbits in the pen.

i would not recommend keeping the older litter with her. the stress aside, older kits have been known to stomp and kill newborn kits when kept in the cage. it's really safer for everyone if the kits are taken away before she begins nesting.

 

[KenoshaRabbits]

Well there are two issues at play; physiological weaning and physical weaning. Your kits are already physiological weaned from their mother. They can eat solid foods on their own and no longer rely on their mother for nourishment. I would wager at this point there is "little to no" nursing going on. My guess is after eight weeks the mother would have stopped nursing them altogether (come combination of not producing milk and not putting up with the kits).

As for nursing, most does only nurse once or twice a day. Once the kits leave the nest box at about 3 weeks they will try to nurse whenever they get a chance and at four weeks they are fine eating pellets for the most part. It is probably a safe bet that the natural weaning process has taken place already.

As for physically weaning them your main concern would be the stress related from separating the mother from the kits. At eight weeks old, they can definitely handle being separated from mom. It would be less stressful to keep them in the same cage and move the mother; but the other way around works too. It would be best to try and reduce other forms of stress such as introducing a new diet, placing them into a cage alone, new owner, new environment (such as going from a relatively quiet barn to a noisy room with kids), etc. etc.

In the wild they are weaned at 4 weeks. Usually the mother breeds the day she kindles (gives birth) and by 4 weeks she has moved on to a new nest, never to see them again. Occasionally, near the end of a season, the mom may be done for the year and lets the last litter stay an extra week or two.

I just had a doe kindle on Sunday and she had her last litter with her up until 4 days before kindling. (I had started the weaning process at 5.5 weeks on a Sunday, moved her to a new cage with 4 kits, removed two a day).

As for keeping two litters together in the same cage you're asking for trouble. Whether you get trouble depends entirely on your specific rabbits. Generally speaking, at this point most does are done with their kits. Possible problems include: the doe views the older kits as threats and attacks them; the older kits accidently hurt the new kits; the older kits try to nurse and reduce the available milk supply; your cage becoming too crowded and stressing out the rabbits.

Some people have had success with multiple does in a cage with a pregnant female. And you might have success too if your lucky. But if you're risk adverse; separate the new kits, they will most likely handle it well.

 

[lpmorgens]

Thanks. All very helpful suggestions. So far, mom continues to groom her 8 wk old kits, showing lots of love and affection, and they are quite nourished from all the food they eat... I think I would be surprised if they were nursing... They show no signs of approaching mom that way. The kits more just hang out together. They are like pets, and the cage opens and they hop around my kitchen.

Great point about mom possibly attacking the older kits if she sees them as a threat. I won't risk it, but I am curious to see if anyone has actually witnessed this.. Again, I won't risk it... I'll have to get started on weaning them.. At least I can keep the two kits together, since they are does. Maybe I'm the one who's stressed having to separate the family :-0

 

[KenoshaRabbits]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mkw-NLk23lA
Here is one of a momma "attacking" kits. Nothing graphic, just little nips.

 

[TheChad]

Once mine hit the five week mark, I move all but one to the grow out cages. I leave the one to help finish any milk. After a couple days, it is gone down to the grow out cages as well.

 

[lpmorgens]

Thanks, all!!! one questions.. what is a grow-out cage.. . other than where siblings live together.. I am building cages this weekend.. I can make on of those... is it larger than a usual cage, or just what you call a cage with baby siblings.. thanks!

 

[KenoshaRabbits]

Thanks, all!!! one questions.. what is a grow-out cage.. . other than where siblings live together.. I am building cages this weekend.. I can make on of those... is it larger than a usual cage, or just what you call a cage with baby siblings.. thanks!

It is any cage you keep the kits in, essentially before they grow to the point when they need their own cage.

Typically they are a bit on the larger size; it all depends on the number of kits and the breed. Here is the ARBA info on recommended cage sizes:

https://www.arba.net/PDFs/CAW.pdf

Plus it depends on what you plan to do with them. If your goal is to keep both of them in the same cage, you might want to make a cage twice as big with the option to install a divider in the middle.

 

[lpmorgens]

Thanks, that was helpful. We're definitely keeping one.. Not sure about the other.

 

[UFCreel]

I have six Red New Zealand kits that will be 5 weeks old on Saturday. Weaning day. They will be in the grow out cage. Which is 4'x4'x24". In another 5 weeks as long as they are 5lbs. It is off to freezer camp.