this is probably silly, but...

[Nyctra]

Is it possible for a rabbit to have both satin AND rex fur? :?

 

[skysthelimit]

No. Both are double recessives, it takes two of each of those genes to get the fur.

There was a thread a while back where someone was trying to work out how to get both until someone brought up that one would cancel out the other. When you cross the two, you will get kits that are neither but carry for one or the other. If you breed them back, you will get kits that are one or neither.

I hope I'm explaining it clearly.

http://www.rabbits.amberwiseman.com/fur.html

__________ Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:45 pm __________

Also the length and diameter of the hair shaft is different between the breeds, so crossing will result in a rex cross that does not have the same denseness of coat as a non crossed rex would.

 

[JessicaR]

we had a satinized rex at our 4h show, she was very pretty and shiney and had the rex feel to her fur.

 

[skysthelimit]

we had a satinized rex at our 4h show, she was very pretty and shiney and had the rex feel to her fur.

She was probably just a shiny Rex, the fur is not dull by any means, but one of the things that genetically makes a satin is the diameter of the hair. The hairs are actually thinner than normal. That would make for a very incorrect Rex coat. My blacks and REW are shiny especially those with incorrect prominent guard hairs.

 

[uhurubuns]

..."both satin AND rex fur?"

Sure you can. They are two separate genes.

big R -normal fur
little r -rex fur
big Sa -normal fur
little sa -satin fur

Both traits are recessive. You have to have rr to get rex and sasa to get satin.
When you cross them to each other, you will get Rr and Sasa, and both traits will "disappear" but all the kits will be carriers of both.

Then you have to cross the kits to each other, and cross your fingers that some of the new kits inherit rr sasa, which will be both rex and satin. Its random, so it could take many kits to get a few that are what you want. And as skysthelimit said, that would be an unrecognized rex coat so you couldn't show them, it would have to be just for your own pleasure and personal taste. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Nyctra]

Well, there's satin angoras, right? It would seem possible, just a matter of chance...unless, as pointed out, they really do cancel each other out. I really wanna give it a shot. lol XD Breeding siblings together wouldn't be too bad, would it? Or would half-siblings be better? :/

 

[akane]

You could put the genes together but the question is whether the short dense guard hairs of the rex coat would work with the thin shiny guard hairs of the satin coat or if you just get something weird.

 

[skysthelimit]

You could put the genes together but the question is whether the short dense guard hairs of the rex coat would work with the thin shiny guard hairs of the satin coat or if you just get something weird.

__________ Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:53 pm __________

Well, there's satin angoras, right? It would seem possible, just a matter of chance...unless, as pointed out, they really do cancel each other out. I really wanna give it a shot. lol XD Breeding siblings together wouldn't be too bad, would it? Or would half-siblings be better? :/

Angoras have long guard hairs, and satin angoras have long thin, translucent guard hairs.

That's kind of the thing, is because first the guard hairs of the two breeds are at different lengths, and it's those short guard hairs that make a rex, and the diameter of the guard hairs that make the Satin what it is, if you get a rabbit with the thinner, translucent guard hair of a Satin, you can't have the short, thicker guard hairs of a Rex. Longer guard hairs would not make a Rex coat. I had Rexes with longer guard hairs, they were thin and shiny, but the fur was no longer Rex, not the same soft Rex you would be used to, so no longer Rex at all.

His fur feels like a brillo pad, by the way.

 

[-HRanchito]

Seems like it can genetically be done! I'm not sure whether you would get the best of each though. The wool of satin angoras decreases the sheen factor b/c the sheen is on the guard hairs, so they might cancel eachother out to a certain extent.

 

[uhurubuns]

Well, there's satin angoras, right?... I really wanna give it a shot.

Go for it. What's the worst that could happen? That's the wonder and fun of rabbits- the freedom to try.

They got satin angora... by crossing satin with angora. The angora gene controls length and satin controls cuticle structure. It's the mutated cuticle that causes the hair to be thinner in diameter. So, the rex gene also controls length. No reason why you can't change the cuticle structure on a very short guard hair.

As others have pointed out, the overall effect is uncertain. With thinner hairs, perhaps the coat won't stand up like it should. But the only to find out is to do it, eh? Can't hurt. Might be stunning!

Breeding full brothers and sisters, even littermates, is just fine if the existing amount of inbreeding is low. It's a standard method for setting traits by increasing similarity. Since your rex and satin are not related to each other at all, no worries. Just remember that the offspring will be all over the place- very rexlike, very satinlike, or anywhere in between. You just have to keep selecting the ones you want and breeding them. Have fun!

 

[Piper]

I found this but I do not understand it. Both breeds seem to be the same size range.
"rex have finer bone, and this leads to a lot of sore hocks. There's a limit to the amount of weight (meat) that fine bones can carry w/o damage."

 

[MamaSheepdog]

"rex have finer bone, and this leads to a lot of sore hocks. There's a limit to the amount of weight (meat) that fine bones can carry w/o damage."

It probably has more to do with the length of the fur on the foot pads. Ideal fur length (body) is 5/8", so the fur on the pads is bound to be shorter than a normal furred rabbit. You need to select for well-furred hocks. I have a couple older does that have bare spots on their hocks, but they are pretty well calloused- they don't leave a blood trail when they hop around. :roll: I really should squirt them with Vetricin and see if the fur regrows. :hmm:

 

[skysthelimit]

Seems like it can genetically be done! I'm not sure whether you would get the best of each though. The wool of satin angoras decreases the sheen factor b/c the sheen is on the guard hairs, so they might cancel each other out to a certain extent.

Yeah that's kind of what I am saying. Since the sheen is on the guard hairs, and they guard hairs of a Rex are thicker and shorter, they won't shine like a satin. Or else, they will be long enough to shine but no loner feel like a Rex. You can give a kit both those genes, but the fur will not have the best of both qualities, it will be a mix of both, so really neither.

__________ Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:20 pm __________

"rex have finer bone, and this leads to a lot of sore hocks. There's a limit to the amount of weight (meat) that fine bones can carry w/o damage."

It probably has more to do with the length of the fur on the foot pads. Ideal fur length (body) is 5/8", so the fur on the pads is bound to be shorter than a normal furred rabbit. You need to select for well-furred hocks. I have a couple older does that have bare spots on their hocks, but they are pretty well calloused- they don't leave a blood trail when they hop around. :roll: I really should squirt them with Vetricin and see if the fur regrows. :hmm:

"rex have finer bone, and this leads to a lot of sore hocks. There's a limit to the amount of weight (meat) that fine bones can carry w/o damage."

It probably has more to do with the length of the fur on the foot pads. Ideal fur length (body) is 5/8", so the fur on the pads is bound to be shorter than a normal furred rabbit. You need to select for well-furred hocks. I have a couple older does that have bare spots on their hocks, but they are pretty well calloused- they don't leave a blood trail when they hop around. :roll: I really should squirt them with Vetricin and see if the fur regrows. :hmm:

A typical Rex problem that needs to be selected to fix. Rex should not be fine boned, but medium bones. But when you do, you wind up with Rex with prominent guard hairs, longer guard hairs that remove the Rex texture fur, or very course fur. I have both in the barn, a very nice buck that has legs, but pretty much aged himself off of the table when the course senior coat came in. I hope he will put fur on my kits feet here, without destroying the fur texture. It's a hard balance, thicker, harder fur or correct fur.

I'm all for experimenting, I'd like to get some colors Rex don't usually come in. Some of these breeds took a decade or more to perfect, weeding out the genes of other rabbits that help to develop them. It's hard enough now to keep the right kind of fur on a Rex, breeding Rex to Rex. This make take many generations, but if you have the time and the space give it a try.