The usual 'what color is this?'

[hotzcatz]

The bunnies here are all angoras and almost all of them are English angora. I've basically been breeding the same stock for the past ten years with just a few additions to the herd over the years. This is the first time this particular color has shown up. What color is it?

This is the 'black baby' at seven weeks old. I'd thought she was black when she (at least I think it's a 'she') was born. But since then she's become 'not-black'. She's not chocolate, though. Is this Dark Sable?

The flash on the camera really brings out the brown, in real life she's a much more black looking bunny.

The wool seems to be gray underneath?

FWIW, the dam is a Ruby Eyed White with a genetic color code of: aa _b cc _d _e. The REW's parents were a chocolate and a tortoiseshell. She was bred back to her sire, the tortoiseshell. His genetic color code is: aa Bb Cc Dd ee.

This is a pretty inbred litter, but the buck was being shipped off island so I wanted to concentrate his genes in a litter before he left. He's a tort out of an agouti and black.

So what color is that little rabbit?

 

[Zass]

Is she sun scalded, or urine stained?

 

[hotzcatz]

She's seven weeks old and in a wire hutch floored hutch so no urine scald. Pretty shady hutch and only an hour or so of early morning direct light, not sure how she'd get sunburn.

I've had several other rabbits who had the white undercoat next to the skin, but none of them have been this dark brown/chocolate color. The nose - without the camera flash - looks 'almost black' or 'not-quite-black', but when sitting next to an actual black rabbit, it's obviously different from black rabbit. Although even a black rabbit's coat will fade to silver by the time it's long enough to harvest (she's an English angora) so this one may not stay dark when the coat is ready to harvest.

This is the first time this color has shown up in the herd here. I'm not quite sure what color it is, or what the genetics may be.

 

[ladysown]

i'd be calling that sable. That "off-black" is sable-y.

 

[hotzcatz]

Yeah, I was thinking 'sable', too, BUT in order to be sable, she would have to have the 'light chinchilla' gene of 'cchl'. The C genes have that incomplete dominance thing. In order of dominance, it's C, then dark chinchilla, light chinchilla, Himilayan and then finally albino.

C
cchd
cchl
ch
c

The sire is a tortoiseshell who has REW offspring, therefore he must have a "Cc". No room for the light chinchilla gene necessary for a dark sable bunny. The mum bun is a REW which is 'cc'. No room for the light chinchilla gene there, so she can't have the light chinchilla gene, either. No light chinchilla gene, no sable bunny. So the little one isn't a dark sable, but I haven't a clue what she is. She is 'not black'.

Maybe some sort of modifier on the 'B' gene? Is it possible to have some sort of something between black and chocolate on the B gene? It doesn't seem related to the dilute gene. Could it be some sort of modifier on the 'e' gene? The sire is tort which is 'ee'. Hmm. Maybe instead of blocking the full extension of the black color leaving just the yellows, only the black color got blocked leaving chocolate? That doesn't sound right but maybe a direction to explore?

 

[ladysown]

the colour probably traces back to that agouti grandparent....

 

[hotzcatz]

Is there an modifier on the A gene which would cause this odd color? I don't have any more agouti left in the herd, which I think is pretty odd since it's supposed to be a dominant.

Other than the chocolate color on a black rabbit, the white underfur is a bit odd, too? I've been noticing several of the rabbits have that white/light undercoat, not sure what that's all about, either.

 

[Lewis]

Curious what this bun looks like all grown up. Do you know who the Sires parents are (their genetic make up?)?

 

[hotzcatz]

Once she molted her baby coat, she is an all black bun now. I'd meant to do a test breeding of her to a REW buck, but grabbed the wrong black rabbit. Ooops! Guess I should read the tats and not just think I know who's who. Still not quite sure who that rabbit is that is visiting the white buck, guess I should go check the tat and hope she has one.

Venus is a black (I think) out of a REW by a tort. Her mum, Daisy, has a genetic code of: aa _b cc __ _e since she's out of a chocolate by a tort. Venus' sire is also her grandsire, he's a black tort out of a black by an agouti and his color code is: aa Bb Cc Dd ee.

Far as I can figure without any test matings, she's: aa B_ C_ D_ ee. Not a whole lot to work with there. I figured if she was actually some sort of light chinchilla or something on the C gene, then mated to a REW that would give it a chance to show up. Guess I can clean out the double nesting hutch and put whoever that other black rabbit is on one side and put her on the other. That'll be two litters by the REW buck, but that's okay.

Since she was born, I've gotten in an agouti buck, so after she's bred to the REW buck, she will probably meet up with the agouti. He's several generations away from the herd here, but his parents were from here. But, that was several years ago, so now he's several generations away from the ones here. Still a small gene pool, but I'm doing what I can to keep the levels of inbreeding below 25%. Venus, however, is at 44% inbred, which may be why she came out with that odd color.