Texan Pioneer Pigeons

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DumansArk

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Does anyone raise pigeons for utility (meat) or pets?

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Above: A fledgling just learning to fly and still begging food (or "milk" as it is called) from it's parents.

We have a flock of "fancy" pigeons that we enjoy.

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Watching them fly, or watching them watch us; they are fun and very interesting animals. Recently the topic of squabbing (raising pigeons for eating) came up on HomesteadingToday and they mentioned the history of pigeon meat, and specifically the Great Depression period in the USA where pigeons were kept on when even chickens were considered too expensive to keep feeding.

In that discussion, someone mentioned the Texan Pioneer pigeon, a variety that is auto sexing from the time they hatch.

Pigeons are very difficult to accurately sex unless you actually see a cock covering a hen. So an auto sexing? We'd love them!
But it seems the majority of birds are, not surprisingly, located in Texas. I have a few phone numbers to try when the holidays are over, but does anyone on this forum raise them? If so, would you be willing to ship them? Or ship eggs?

Who else raises pigeons and what varieties do you keep? What ones are on your wishlist? (I want to try Silkies/Frillbacks! :) )
 
Do you keep them for eating? If so do you have to clip their wings? What kind of stuff do they eat? Are they expensive to raise? How much area do you need for them? How much mess do they make?

It sounds like something that would be pretty nice. I've never had pigeon meat but I hear it is good stuff.
 
I use to keep a few "shooters" around just to watch fly. The hawks would get one here and there or they would go off and join the ferals at the grain elevator up the street but at $2/ea. I could afford to replace them, not that I didn't have my favorite that I hated to have disappear.
 
I don't raise pigeons for "squab" (young pigeon to eat) yet, but I have read about it.

mystang89":ncc34ifu said:
do you have to clip their wings? What kind of stuff do they eat? Are they expensive to raise?

No, you do not clip their wings. The whole idea is for them to "free range" for food- eating natural forage or your neighbor's crops instead of your own. They will come back to the "dovecote" you provide for them to roost and have their young.

Think "homing pigeon"... they naturally return to their roosting place. Homing pigeons just make longer and faster journeys. :)

mystang89":ncc34ifu said:
How much mess do they make?

They are probably no more messy than other fowl you might keep, but given that they can roost on the roof of your house or outbuildings which are not easily accessed it might be a bit problematic to clean up after them. In a suburban setting you would be wise to limit the size of your flock unless you want complaints from your neighbors. ;)
 
Raising for meat hasn't been a primary drive for us, no. But with this particular breed, the TX Pioneer, they were developed for that purpose as well as for show (because they are pretty too)
But with the economy the way it is now, you bet, we are looking at pigeons in a different way than we did originally.

Most breeders raise their birds in an enclosed loft. It can be a fancy or a simple hobby - fanciers sometimes train birds to fly and come back, to fly in a "kit" (for tumbler and roller pigeons that naturally perform "acrobatics" in the air)

No need to clip wings when they are kept in a loft. Haven't heard of anyone clipping wings to inhibit flight but if you were to keep pigeons and didn't want them to fly there are a few breeds that are not known for the ability (some are raised as meat birds and are too big, others are bred so fancy their feathers aren't suitable for catching/keeping lift)

But when I got my first pair I kept them in a rabbit hutch. When we moved to a place in the woods I let ours out to fly. They loved it. So did I. So pretty to see!
Over the years they've never moved to a tree and nested there or flown away and gone "wild". They nest like crazy in our chicken loft and stay close to their babies.

They do fly though and the older ones especially go very, very high in the air, above the tree line, and fly for a longer time than I would have imagined. They also seem to do it just for fun, which is neat.

Feeding: Again, this is a hobby that can get pretty fancy with diets, worming schedules, and so on.
But I got my birds (a Mookie and a Roller made up my first pair) from a guy who kept it simple. I liked that style and I do the same. He told me a lot of people feed them corn, but they don't do well on it. They need bird seed. He said to feed them Wild Bird seed mix so that's what I started with. Years later, I still use it, although I now add BOSS and oyster shell out for them to eat as much of as they like too.

Some raise their pigeons for food by turning them loose, letting them forage on their own (not putting out food for them) and netting the birds, shooting them, or grabbing squabs out of the nest. Others say you can't efficiently raise meat breeds without giving them grain (think Runts and King birds which grow to 2 lbs or more in 5 weeks or so) --- this is true, but it's no different than NZs on pasture. It can be done, it just takes longer or they aren't as big as grain fed would be. Raise them how you like and how it works for you; pigeons can be as hard or as easy as you want to make them.

Area: I have seen pigeon breeder cages that I feel are pretty darn tiny. If I were stuck in a little cage with two or three squeaking kids (they call the babies squeakers and they REALLY do squeak - a lot!) and my mate --- I'd go nuts. But pigeons have been kept this way for a long, long time so I can't say it's wrong. They apparently do just fine.

Keeping them in a rabbit cage made ours happy but I sure love to see them fly, so I like them loose. Predators are a big deal with pigeon keepers that fly their birds, and we sure have quite a few ourselves; hawks & owls are the primary concerns for most. But I pull more snakes out of the coop (full of pigeon eggs and squabs, the scaly thieves!) in the summer than anything. The hawks are here all the time but the pigeons that have survived watch very closely and everyone gets their tail in the coop when a hawk flies by.

Mess: Pigeons are very clean birds themselves. Beautiful and shiny. But to do that, they bathe a lot. All the time. Even when we lived in WI, with temps nearly -40, those birds would be hopping in their water as soon as we were pouring it. And they make a MESS with their water. If you don't have them caged, it isn't so bad. But caged; somehow they get little seeds in there, they poop in it, and their feathers leave a white powdery/oil film slick on the water. Definitely something to change twice a day if you can.

Their droppings are no worse than a chicken's. I find them easier to clean up after than a chicken when I have kept them penned. (But they are how many times smaller and produce that much less poo too so it's all relative)

Some people hate the taste of pigeon, others love it. I am told that older birds have a different flavor. That birds that forage wild (eating no seed mix at all) taste wild.

One thing I do have to say in regards to eating: Chickens eat anything. Sure they love their layer mix and their scratch mix foods, but in the words of the comedian Bill Engvall "Chickens find things in their poop [to eat]." Chickens are wonderful clean-up crews. Pigeons forage with our goats and with our other animals on the ground, but they don't pick at the things chickens will, and they seem to stick to seeds and grasses. If I had to choose between one and the other, I'd prefer not to eat something that was picking at the dead mouse that the cat brought back ;)

However. I do love the taste of chicken. Baked, Breaded, Grilled, BBQ'd.
And nothing, no matter how the jokes go, really tastes like chicken but chicken :D<br /><br />__________ Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:25 pm __________<br /><br />MSD you are looking at meat pigeons too! NEAT! :D
What varieties are you looking at? (Or do you raise them already but just haven't tried them yet?)

Rittert when we do find them at our local flea markets they are around $5 for us (they used to be that $2 - $3) and that's not a bad deal for us since we have kept them as parent birds and let them turn around and raise many more. We too have our favorites, and just about all of them have names. But when a hawk gets them, it gets them. The drawbacks to having them loose, but like you, we believe that if need be most of them can be replaced.
 
DumansArk":bofeemnp said:
MSD you are looking at meat pigeons too! NEAT! :D
What varieties are you looking at? (Or do you raise them already but just haven't tried them yet?)

No, not yet. I was concerned that they would be eaten by our local hawks and eagles, but we have a neighbor about 10 miles distant that raises white pigeons and they seem to be outproducing the predation, if any.

But... pigeons are in my blood! :p My grandfather raised racing pigeons, but when the Nazi's occupied Denmark, they killed everyone's homing pigeons.

Here is a pic of some of the "medals" my grandfather won:

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Thanks much for the detailed explanation Duman. I will be trying to find a website or too for more info.

I would love to watch them fly and I don't "think" we have too many predators around here, being suburban and all, but I know we have a few. Making a home for them couldn't be to hard. I don't think anyway. Four walls and a ceiling. Oh, and a floor.

Is 5 weeks how old they are when you cull them or is their an ideal age range?

Oh, and how friendly are they. Do they let you hold them? I've never raised birds before, other than Leghorn chickens and they don't know the meaning of friendly. The only words they know is RUN!!!!! Stupid birds. It's not like I haven't raised you from eggs and feed/watered you every single day of your life. Cleaned up after you!!! I've done......sorry, ever feel like you're not appreciated?
 
mystang89":qa7hacbh said:
I would love to watch them fly

From what I was reading this morning, they don't really fly. They're too heavy for their wings. I agree a flight of pigeons is a pretty sight. But it's fun to see them strutting around too.

There were pictures of people holding the pigeons and they looked quite friendly.
 
I'm currently trying to wiesel my way into bringing up raising pigeons too. I have the butter out right now, trying to keep things smooth. 8) Although I still have more research to do.
 
mystang89":3pzcejfn said:
Oh, and how friendly are they. Do they let you hold them?

I don't know how friendly most pigeons are, but I knew one that was. I worked at a pet store and grooming shop, which specialized in birds... (the pet store part- not the grooming part!), and someone brought a homely little baby pigeon in that they had found.

Naturally, we took the little squab in and started hand feeding it. This was back when California had started the captive breeding of Condors for eventual release in the wild, so we named him "Condor". :)

He grew up to be one of our store mascots (we had a cat too... and a neighborhood dog that would come visit every day while her family was at work). We usually left the front door open, so both he and Byron would come and go as they pleased.

Sometimes I would walk across the street to pick up lunch for everybody, and he would fly and/or walk over with me. We were well known at the drive through window. :D

I don't know if female pigeons "dance", but Condor did. He would dance and coo at us, and he loved to sit on people's heads or shoulders. Unlike some parrots, he was friendly to everyone he met, and often startled the clients by swooping over and roosting on them.

We had one client with a great fear of flying birds, so I always had to get her order for her as she peered warily through the door. :roll:

I think if you handled the little squabs they would probably become quite tame. Even wild pigeons that are accustomed to being fed by people become quite brazen and show little fear of people.
 
I was just looking into pigeons we have been kicking around the idea. We took a massive step back in rabbits since my rabbit house burnt to the ground its been hard to start over agin so ive been looking for a new hobby
 
How much wild bird seed do you go through a month and for how many birds. My wife found out too early what I was thinking so now I'm having a tough time with it lol
 
MamaSheepdog":1mpz7skm said:
DumansArk":1mpz7skm said:
MSD you are looking at meat pigeons too! NEAT! :D
What varieties are you looking at? (Or do you raise them already but just haven't tried them yet?)

No, not yet. I was concerned that they would be eaten by our local hawks and eagles, but we have a neighbor about 10 miles distant that raises white pigeons and they seem to be outproducing the predation, if any.

But... pigeons are in my blood! :p My grandfather raised racing pigeons, but when the Nazi's occupied Denmark, they killed everyone's homing pigeons.

Here is a pic of some of the "medals" my grandfather won:


What history! (Sad history, but still) Your grandfather's medals... THAT IS SO COOL!!!!!!!
Yes you DEFINITELY need pigeons now - a family tradition to keep :)

I am on a few "White Dove" groups and the general consensus is that, like you said, the birds will outproduce what the predators manage to pick off. It is just sad when you lose a favorite.<br /><br />__________ Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:53 pm __________<br /><br />
Miss M":1mpz7skm said:
Shay's uncles raised racing pigeons, too. The losers were dinner. ;)

He's been thinking about raising doves for meat. :)

That is sure one way to keep winners producing winners :D
A little incentive too.... "Lucy, did you hear what they said? If we don't win this race they're gonna EAT us!" ;D

Funny story: my friend raises pigeons too, and she got a bunch of new birds. Had them for months and no eggs. Finally one day she decided fine, she'd eat them then. She said the next day she went out to pick her dinner and she had EGGS! Within weeks she had squabs and a squeaking loft :lol:
 
bucknercrestfarm":1u5lw14e said:
We took a massive step back in rabbits since my rabbit house burnt to the ground its been hard to start over agin
:cry: I didn't read about that! I am so sorry to hear this happened! :eek: :cry:
 
I was looking for more info on pigeons in general and came across this site http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/204998/the-texan-pioneer-utility-pigeon-a-tutorial/100. I saw your post on the last page Duman. It seems that it might be a bit expensive to raise them for 12 or so squabs a year. From reading it seemed that over 600lbs of food is eaten by a pair of pigeons that aren't able to forage for themselves. I'm boarderline right now on whether to get started on this or not.

I might try a utility bird that flies or at least see if there is such a thing.
 
We started raising homing pigeons since this past spring. I built a small loft and told my wife it's size limited how many birds we could have. Over the summer and even into winter we have had about 6-8 babies born. I think I have my wife talked into eating the last 2 that were born!!

I think squab are very young birds ...maybe a month old. Years ago I ate some good ones and some bad ones. I think age is importatnt to taste!!

We let ours out every day to just fly around or take them from here and let them "home". Very fun to watch!!

Will take a look at the texans!!
 
From reading it looks like butcher times for squab is 4 - 10 weeks ish. I tried to find some pigeons around here to buy and....wow...

$155 for a pair of kings. $60 for a pair for Texans. I can't imagine why pigeons would cost so much. I did check on CL and in a 100 mile radius found 1 pigeon for sale. It was more resoonably priced at $12 and it was a king. I don't know if it was a show or utility bird though.

I read on one of the forums that someone just went out under overpasses with a net a got a bunch lol. I can understand why hehe
 
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