Tell me about Charlies

[coffeenutdesigns]

One of my unexpected litters is from 2 broken black parents. Does this mean I might have some Charlies and what are they exactly? Is it a genetic anomaly or just lack of markings? I have 2 babies with black around their eyes and grayish ear fur (less than a week old) but not a lot of black markings like some of the broken babies. Are these Charlies?

TIA.

 

[Dood]

The broken gene is incompletely dominant meaning that if a rabbit has one the should have about 50% white and 50% coloured fur (but this isn't always the case) If a rabbit gets two then they will be mostly white with very little colour and it is usually found around the eyes and ears.

Because both the parents carry one broken (unless one of them is a 'charlie') statistically 25% of the kits will get two broken alleles and be 'charlies'.

 

[Random Rabbit]

Broken X Broken will give... 25% solids / 50% brokens / and 25% charlies. A Charlie received the EN from Both parents a Double dose so to speak. Genetically it is EnEn. It will only be able to give its offspring the EN... resulting in broken color.
Charlies are "usually" much less marked than a normal broken Enen rabbit.

The youngsters You describe most likely Are Charlies.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

You most likely have a couple.

If the parents are out of a solid and a broken rabbit, they carry one gene for each trait. Some of the kits (approximately 25%) in your litter will get a broken gene from both parents, making them genetic charlies. When a charlie is bred to a solid colored rabbit, all of the kits in the litter will be broken.

Most charlies are very lightly marked, having a butterfly nose marking and colored ears with a few spots on the body if any.

I haven't had a charlie, but have heard that some of them have health problems related to the digestive tract. However, if you have a vigorous one and use it in your breeding program, it can be a great way to ensure lots of broken popples.

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

I have 2 that look like this:

__________ Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:05 pm __________

This is the litter, except the big white one in the middle. He's a foster child. Will the dark one be black? (both parents are broken black).

<br /><br />__________ Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:07 pm __________<br /><br />These babies weren't part of my plan at all, so no breeding program planned here. Should I plan on culling the charlies as food to avoid health problems or would they be okay to pet out?

 

[Dood]

I see 3 broken (2 black and 1blue?), 2 charlies(blue?), 1 solid and the big foster kit in the middle.

Could there be another buck who bred the doe. You should not have gotten any solid coloured kits and he looks blue or tort but will not be black.

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

Why should there not be any solids? Random Rabbits stated 50% broken/ 25% solid/ 25% charlie, if that is correct that would account for the solid, correct?

These does were bred before I got them so anything is possible. There were 4 "does" sharing a pen when I picked them up. One is the troublemaking little buck, 2 had litters, and there is a black one that I have not sexed. There are no prominent testicles showing and no spraying and the other doe did dominate it before I separated them. Then there was a Californian buck in the herd but it was not in the pen.

ETA: Went and flipped her and looked. I am about 90% sure she's a she.

Rabbit genetics is worse than calculus.

__________ Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:50 pm __________

The Cali doe that was in the pen also had 1 dark-colored solid in her litter, but it died. Her others were all white or broken. Does that help?

__________ Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:07 pm __________

Oh, and how can you tell it is blue or blue tort instead of black already when they are so little? Are blacks darker as babies or is there some other distinguishing factor? I really have no clue when it comes to colors, but since I have them, I might as well learn something.

 

[Jack]

Because it's the odds, and each one is seperate event, you can do the odds for a litter, BUT for each popple, it's 25/50/25...
Charlies are lacking the nose markings, the 'butterfly'

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

I get odds...even if there is a 25% chance of getting solid, that is still a chance, which would make it possible, but Dood said there shouldn't be any unless the 25/50/25 is not the correct split for 2 brokens.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

If the broken parents are out of a solid and a broken, they are each carrying a solid gene, so you can (and did) get solids. If one of the parents was a true charlie, it would be carrying two broken genes, so every kit would be a broken.

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

If the broken parents are out of a solid and a broken, they are each carrying a solid gene, so you can (and did) get solids. If one of the parents was a true charlie, it would be carrying two broken genes, so every kit would be a broken.

Thank you, that is how understood it.<br /><br />__________ Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:55 pm __________<br /><br />So, at which point might I be able to tell if the little charlies might have digestive issues? I won't sell as pets if I think they are going to have problems, I'll just send them to freezer camp, but some of the pictures of Charlies that I see are very pretty and if they are going to be okay, I would rather send them to a pet home.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

So, at which point might I be able to tell if the little charlies might have digestive issues?

In another thread someone said that many don't make it to breeding age.

Are you thinking the two with blue ears are charlies? I think they may be cali marked. Watch their nose and tails for darker fur appearing.

 

[Dood]

Oh geez, sorry about that, I must had had a brain fart. Of course you can get solids from two brokens, I was taken a back by all the white and thinking you had a charlie x broken litter.

Anyway the black on the 2 broken blacks is very dark while the solid and 2 charlies look faded or more grey like. If they are torted they will develope a brown tinge along their sides in a few days. It is hard to see the broken on the far right but the freckles on his hip look light to me.

I don't think they are Cali marked (himalayan gene) as it doesn't form coloured rings around the eyes. Although the white foster kit may be since he has that cold shock grey tinge to him.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I don't think they are Cali marked (himalayan gene) as it doesn't form coloured rings around the eyes. Although the white foster kit may be since he has that cold shock grey tinge to him.

I didn't see any rings around the eyes. I was going to say they could be torts too, but I have only seen a few in my Lionhead litters, so it was just another guess. :lol:

 

[skysthelimit]

Thats kind of dark for himi marked at that age, from what I'm seeing with my Rex.

I have had no issues with my charlies. Then again, I don't sell Rex pets, so all were culled by 5 mos.

 

[Dood]

In the close up picture of the one Charlie you can see the colour along the eye lid and once it opens they'll have rings.

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

The white foster kit is a cali. He came from my large cali litter if 13. He was the runt so not getting enough to eat. I put him in with this younger litter that was more his size

 

[rawfeeder]

Charlies are really pretty but as mentioned they can have issues. I have a false charlie doe (out of a broken X solid breeding) who I think has some minor issues related to her pattern. Her poops are always just slightly soft no matter what I feed. And she is the only rabbit I haven't been able to litter box train. In fact she loves to poop and then sit on it and constantly has a dirty matted bum The breeder I got her off had her in wire cages and she still managed to have a dirty bum even back then. (I got her at 6 months of age)

Personally I'd be hesitant petting out any charlies just in case they have any issues further down the line.