Taping Quarters to Ears????

[Peach]

I just became super curious (though I didn't like it) that there was a picture of a Holland Lop with quarters taped to its ears! Now some people had commented on it, going back and forth over ethics/why it is wrong/big time breeders that do it/etc , but I was just on of those people that didn't agree with it. Even if it works, you arent fixing the problem. The problem is still there! Someone even said they tried it and the Holland ended up chewing up it's own ear. Reminded me of some barns in GA the tie up a horses head to either a cinder block or the rafters just to get a certain low head carriage for reining classes. :angry: People just try to force things so much.

 

[Cindi Davis]

I agree Peach what some people do to animals that is out of character for that animal )s) is unreal.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

They used to tape coins to sheltie's ears to "train" the cartilage to fold at the tips. Maybe they still do.

Some people want to take the easy way out- instead of breeding for or training for the qualities/ behaviors they want.

 

[skysthelimit]

Taping is a big thing in German shepherds. Some don't even wait to see if the ears will stand by themselves. To me that would be a pet. Each generation it gets worse.

 

[JessicaR]

They used to tape coins to sheltie's ears to "train" the cartilage to fold at the tips. Maybe they still do.

Some people want to take the easy way out- instead of breeding for or training for the qualities/ behaviors they want.

Yes we still tape/glue shelties ears. Very few shelties have natural ears, and if you wait to see if they are going to be natural most of the times it is too late and you will end up with prick ears. From what i was told by other breeders the genetics of ear carriage are very complex, and to breed only naturally tipped ear shelties would drastically cut down on the gene pool.

 

[skysthelimit]

They used to tape coins to sheltie's ears to "train" the cartilage to fold at the tips. Maybe they still do.

Some people want to take the easy way out- instead of breeding for or training for the qualities/ behaviors they want.

Yes we still tape/glue shelties ears. Very few shelties have natural ears, and if you wait to see if they are going to be natural most of the times it is too late and you will end up with prick ears. From what i was told by other breeders the genetics of ear carriage are very complex, and to breed only naturally tipped ear shelties would drastically cut down on the gene pool.

When something should happen naturally and it doesn't, something that would make the animal incorrect for its breed, if at all possible, though it may be corrected on an animal, it should not be made a practice. If a few animals need it, it would be an exception, and I would be careful to breed to an animal that had correct ear carriage. Perhaps it's not that simple for some things, but in all of the years I've had shepherds, I have only taped one set of ears.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

From what i was told by other breeders the genetics of ear carriage are very complex, and to breed only naturally tipped ear shelties would drastically cut down on the gene pool.

Just out of curiosity, I checked the AKC ranking of Shelties, and they are the 20th most popular breed. That indicates a pretty large gene pool to me.

 

[skysthelimit]

From what i was told by other breeders the genetics of ear carriage are very complex, and to breed only naturally tipped ear shelties would drastically cut down on the gene pool.

Just out of curiosity, I checked the AKC ranking of Shelties, and they are the 20th most popular breed. That indicates a pretty large gene pool to me.

I'm guessing the number of shelties that drop their ears naturally is very small. I'm also assuming that even though the registrations are high, the number of show dogs is still small, I get maybe 1-3 showable dogs in a litter of 9, and shelties are a breed with height Dq's, so that can make for slim pickins'.

 

[JessicaR]

I would be very happy if you could show a sheltie without having to tape!, well technically you can show just good luck placing since a such a big emphisis is put on the head, at least in AKC. Ukc is a little more lenient, my bitch finished her UKC CH. with 1 prick, and semi prick ear.

But yes the number of natural eared shelties is small, and shelties tend to be line bred alot anyways. And we do have the height DQ, and in AKC (not UKC) more than 50% white is so heavily penalized that it might as well be a DQ. I could just go nuts with size and ears :stars: My favorite and very beautiful male is 18 inches tall, his parents are 13 and 14.5 inches tall, curse that collie blood that was added up until the 1950's!

 

[skysthelimit]

One of the reasons I don't show shelties, though I love them dearly. Getting the right combo of genes for a show dog is hard enough, then that height DQ is like Murphy's Law waiting to happen.

Don't know about lops. Is lop ear a dominant or recessive trait?

 

[countryhorse]

Hi
Why don't they change the standard on the shelties then if it's near impossible to do naturally?
can it be petitioned to change? Or was that something that used to be common and ended up being bred out somehow? Interesting.
Thanks
Angela

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

I dont think its right or wrong. Ive heard of it but have never done it because really its just hiding what the animal really is and what it will produce.

 

[Secuono]

Hi
Why don't they change the standard on the shelties then if it's near impossible to do naturally?
can it be petitioned to change? Or was that something that used to be common and ended up being bred out somehow? Interesting.
Thanks
Angela

Exactly, if something so miniscule and insignificant cannot be done naturally, the standards should just get over it and change. I never knew they taped pup ears and I don't see how that works out well all the time. Ears up or a bit floppy, both are cute dogs, only the most stubborn of people would have an issue with straight eared/natural Sheltie ears.
My dober lost a lot of hair from his ears being taped to stand after cropping, he still has sparse hair and he is now 6yrs.

I just read they also glue the ears together so they sit high on the head and close together. What the heck...

 

[skysthelimit]

Changing the standard is like rewriting the rules for the old boys club. I'd just a well elbow my way into the boy scouts! Not likely to happen. No more than they would change the gsd standard to accommodate white gsds, which are an AKC ring DQ. No one knows when it started, no one knows why, but changing it probably will never happen.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

In dogs,--especially shelties-- putting weights on the ears can backfire!! It may not look it, but ears are muscled-- and the half erect ear of shelties and collies depends very much on the density of the supporting cartilage. Weighting the ears can sometimes 'strengthen' the ear muscles and cartilage, leaving the ears erect--

I do know of some pro handlers that have used chymopapain (sorry, can't remember the spelling) the active ingredient in meat tenderizer( Such as Adolph's) mixed in saline solution, to 'soften' the cartilage just where the ear is supposed to 'tip'

NO WILD CANID HAS FLOPPY EARS!! ALL EARS ARE ERECT!
It is thought, that man chose droopy eared wolves because the expressions were softer/friendlier, There may actually be a link between droopy ears and a milder temperament.

All our flop eared rabbits are totally unnatural-- then, throw in excessive ear sizes, as in English Lop-- The shorter eared lops either have very heavy cartilages-- with weaker bases, or just plain weak ear bases- which could very well be a muscular issue.

we all go "aawww" when we see the lops with their droopy ears, or when we see a ND dwarf with such a round 'cute' face that our hearts melt. BUt whathas breeding for those characteristics done for the health of the breed?
Oops, I inadvertently climbed onto a soapbox-- time to get off!

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I've known several Sheltie people, and those who show are usually very passionate about their dogs...the ears can be a nuisance though.

One breeder I know had great success with "fixing" the ears...instead of weights on them, she just used a single drop of fabric glue to stick the eartip to the fur below it. The glue would eventually come out when the puppy coat shed out (or if it was combed out for showing if shown as a pup) and the ears seemed pretty perfect ever after.

I personally don't see much of a problem with people fixing or taping or weighing ears on dogs...when things like Poodle "wiggies" are allowed. Nowadays you can't win with a Poodle if you don't dye the heck out of the dog, and put in a quality "wiggie" for that grand huge topknot. Makes me CRAZY when people come into the salon with their pet-quality Poodles and a photo they pulled off of Google of a top-quality showdog, and ask me to make their dog look like the photo. Then they get mad when I tell them I can't actually DO THAT.

There are so many breeds that are tough to win with in the AKC unless you tamper with the dog somehow.

I've vowed never to fix or dye with my future Afghan. If I lose because my dog isn't dyed, that's ok.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Poodle "wiggies" are allowed. Nowadays you can't win with a Poodle if you don't dye the heck out of the dog, and put in a quality "wiggie" for that grand huge topknot.

:shock:

 

[JessicaR]

I've known several Sheltie people, and those who show are usually very passionate about their dogs...the ears can be a nuisance though.

One breeder I know had great success with "fixing" the ears...instead of weights on them, she just used a single drop of fabric glue to stick the eartip to the fur below it. The glue would eventually come out when the puppy coat shed out (or if it was combed out for showing if shown as a pup) and the ears seemed pretty perfect ever after.

I personally don't see much of a problem with people fixing or taping or weighing ears on dogs...when things like Poodle "wiggies" are allowed. Nowadays you can't win with a Poodle if you don't dye the heck out of the dog, and put in a quality "wiggie" for that grand huge topknot. Makes me CRAZY when people come into the salon with their pet-quality Poodles and a photo they pulled off of Google of a top-quality showdog, and ask me to make their dog look like the photo. Then they get mad when I tell them I can't actually DO THAT.

There are so many breeds that are tough to win with in the AKC unless you tamper with the dog somehow.

I've vowed never to fix or dye with my future Afghan. If I lose because my dog isn't dyed, that's ok.

I dont think ear weights are very common anymore in shelties. All the breeders I know use tear mender, and on the really stubborn ears mole skin for braces.

I love standard poodles, but the grooming is 1 reason why I wont get one to show. I do not like the over excessive coat they are kept in! How in the world are they supposed to be water retrievers with that much coat

Have you thought about going to UKC shows with your future Afghan? No products allowed in UKC!

 

[3mina]

Drop ears and white spots are "signs" of domestication, I saw something a very long time ago about a Russian fox fur farm (say that 5 times fast) that started breeding for ease of handling, within 3 or 4 generations they were getting drop ears and unusable pelts due to oddly placed white marks.

 

[SMR]

A side note on English Lops for thought and history check...origins are not exactly known for sure (depending on who you talk to and what you look at) and many places note they were first breed for meat rabbits in Egypt and other hot areas and not just a fancy breed. Yes they are a fancy breed today but that's not the origin of the breed persay.

I still think its like any other rabbit though with health and build, either you've got a keeper or ya don't. Breed for a solid animal and you get a solid animal, breed some thing else...and well you get that some thing else.