Survivor--Kindling Cannibalism Victims

[EnglishSpot]

I am not breeding babies at this time, so the answers are not urgently needed. In fact, it's rather more about morbid curiosity of the pratfalls of living life. I have read many of the threads on here about litters, and have noticed how some first time does snack on their litters, or partially snack on them. For those that are breeding babies and have had does with postpartum popple munchies, what do you personally do with the surviving popples?

For example, there is a topic going on as of this evening regarding a doe having killed two kits and ate the ear off a third. I recall on another thread where another doe had bitten both ears off a kit.

Will the one-eared kit survive the trauma? If it survives, should the baby be culled since it's "imperfect"?

I have read that many breeders here would cull a doe for doing so after about two litters (seems to be the average). Is cannibalism genetic? Is it protein deficiency? Is it generally just a first time mother thing?

 

[Sagebrush]

I am not sure what would happen with a survivor, since I have not had one of my does do anything of the sort. I personally provide all my does who are pregnant or nursing with a trace mineral block to help prevent those post-kindle munchies. I will not keep a doe who makes snacks of her babies. 1 because I want to be able to eat those rabbits when they reach my desired size and 2 she will never be productive for the two markets that I utilize for my rabbits.

:bunnyhop: :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop:

 

[Zass]

I've never had a cannibal doe. It's not what I would consider a "common first timer problem."
I don't really believe it's that common at all. It might have a genetic basis. If it's a nutrient problem...It may still be genetic, only affecting certain animals, while others never have a problem.

I had always assumed the behavior was mostly caused by greater than average stress or perhaps crowding. Something being psychologically not right in a does mind or maybe body. Something's telling her that litter won't make it.

Sometimes I think people assume cannibalism when it's not really the case. The litter or the kit in question may already be dead before the doe decided to "clean up" the carcasses. I don't count that as cannibalism, because she isn't eating live kits. Unexpected kits born on wire without a nestbox would be likely candidates for this...but still...many breeders find them all dead and untouched.

I have had a doe eat an already dead kit just once. So even that isn't overly common.
Most dead kits in the nestbox are pushed to the side and ignored.
In my case, it was a very young kit that had crawled out of the nestbox on a cold night and chilled to death.
Knowing what I do about butchering, I could tell by the lack of blood and overall texture of things that the kit was long dead before any part of it was consumed. I forgave the doe, who hadn't touched the 8 snug, healthy, and well fed kits in the nestbox. She was just being a good housekeeper...getting rid of a carcass that could attract predators.

I've read that an overzealous first time cleaner can groom the ears off kits, but that isn't really cannibalism either, it's more of an accident. I've also never seen that in my herd, so I'd assume it's also not really that common. There are a few pics online of kits that are kept or petted out.
They couldn't be shown, but they can survive without their ears.

I certainly wouldn't re-breed a doe who cannibalized a live litter, or save surviving kits from her for brood stock.
Since my rabbits have never done it...There's absolutely no reason for me to breed a rabbit who would. :shrug:
And,
since rabbits have an exception to everything.
My exception might be if I was able to identify a specific cause, and I felt it was justified, like a predatory night visitor or harassment from a stray dog.
Maybe...or maybe not.

I'm pretty ruthless about culling towards animals that do not easily become stressed, which I feel is a key component to both temperament and health. If I had a doe who cleaned ears off or ate her kits due to a night visitor, I still might eat her and the whole litter when they are large enough.

Since most of my rabbits are mixed-breed meat rabbits, they are required to make up for their lack of monetary value in performance.
I'm not required to favor certain animals due to show type or other physical traits.
I'd like my future generations to be as fuss free as my current ones, and the easiest way to do that is to cull anything and everything that I feel is undesirable. All of the things I choose to cull for might not have a genetic basis, but IMO it's not worth the risk of accidentally breeding it in when they are all equally edible.
I'd rather grow out 2 or 3 does to get one really good one, than breed a bad one now, and have to grow out 10 does to get one really good one later.

Heh...I know it may sound contradictory, since I enjoy fussing over my rabbits quite a bit...but...I don't breed towards rabbits that will REQUIRE the extra fussing over to survive, be happy, or reproduce. I breed rabbits to be as low maintenance and as hardy as possible, because I feel that is what is best for them long term.

 

[Dood]

My current rabbits have never harmed their kits or eaten dead ones to get rid of them and they did not have mineral salt licks for the first two years I raised meat rabbits but now that I have cut back on the pellet portion of their diet I offer one.

Most of my experiences with cannibalism was with my mouse colonies and it is a commonly held belief that it IS genetic.

If I should get such a doe I would cull her regardless of her quality - it is not something I would want to pass on to survivors or to live with dreading the day she gives birth and the carnage I might discover.

I have had several kits damaged when I had a colony - the more dominant doe wanted the nest site and would remove the offending kits They grow so fast that as long as you keep the wound clean for the first few days it will heal over in no time and the kit is no worse for wear. I had ones missing front legs, back feet, tails and ears these amputee kits were often the first chosen for pets :shrug: but obviously they couldn't be shown.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I've had rabbits "overclean" their kits, but only first time does, and they have gone on to be great moms. I have only seen it a couple of times, and I usually have around 100 rabbits.

I always have a mineral block in with my all of my rabbits now (even though they are on pellets so should be getting everything they need) and they do use them. I don't think I have see the "over-cleaning" since providing them, but am not 100% sure on that.

what do you personally do with the surviving popples?

Remove the nest for a couple of days and bring it to the doe only for feeding. Once their hormones level out, I haven't ever seen any more damage.

Will the one-eared kit survive the trauma?

Yes.

If it survives, should the baby be culled since it's "imperfect"?

I would cull for two reasons; my rabbits are bred for show, and it gets pretty hot here in the summer so a one eared rabbit probably would have a hard time regulating its body temperature.

 

[Prisma]

I've had some does over the years have issues. Usually first time does AND usually ones that done it when I had people that were not supposed to be bothering them bother them and strange dogs/cats aggravating them. So it isn't entirely their fault per say and I was thankful it wasn't always an entire loss. I'm sure there were a few that didn't really have a straight up reason, but when it did happen it never happened over and over. I can remember 2 instances where proven does had babies, ears and tails had gotten frost bitten (assuming as it was terribly cold when it happened) and cleaned them off. Kits were fine other wise, just missing tail here, ear there. They were both Mini Rex. Another instance was a momma that had had some trouble, she'd had a huge kit and then another (clipped an ear off pulling) and while trying to pull the 3rd out she clipped its tail off. The rest of the litter came easily but the first 3 didn't. The only one that died was the huge first, rest lived just fine. I show too, but luckily the ones that were missing a tail or ear ended up being great brooders. Again Mini Rex.

-- Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:23 am --

Deleted double post.