Supplementary feeding

[Charliehooks]

Is there any danger of feeding kits between feedings with mom? I notice in a lot of growth charts there seems to be 1-2 kits that are all stars (weight wise) and the rest fall behind. Wondering if I bottle/syringe fed when I went out if it would impact there want for finding mom's ****s lol. I'm not talking filling them up to full either just some for an extra boost.

Also should I go with goat's milk (farm down the road) or KMR which has 40+% proteins

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

I don't see what would go wrong. Chip was really tiny so he got extra feedings on either his mother or the other Doe with kits and he's doing very well now (Just really small)

 

[MsTemeraire]

Is there any danger of feeding kits between feedings with mom? I notice in a lot of growth charts there seems to be 1-2 kits that are all stars (weight wise) and the rest fall behind.

There is a risk of aspiration when bottle/syringe feeding and is a leading cause of loss in hand-rearing.

 

[KelleyBee]

Is there any danger of feeding kits between feedings with mom? I notice in a lot of growth charts there seems to be 1-2 kits that are all stars (weight wise) and the rest fall behind. Wondering if I bottle/syringe fed when I went out if it would impact there want for finding mom's ****s lol. I'm not talking filling them up to full either just some for an extra boost.

Also should I go with goat's milk (farm down the road) or KMR which has 40+% proteins

NOTE ADDED: I’m adding a note here for future readers to understand why I do this. The littlest and weakest animal of a litter is one not to sell off to others once grown. Ultimately, my rabbits are bred for food on the table. Thus, the littlest of my litters still serve their ultimate purpose as a meal. Interestingly, I learned the method of intervention described here from ARBA’s book, Raising Better Rabbits and Cavies.

….Original post follows….

I’ve tried hand feeding the littlest ones. I found it mostly ineffective. Then I stumbled upon this excellent approach:

Keep the new nest box in a safe place indoors and away from mom. Each morning, bring mom in, and while holding her on her back, place one or two of the absolute littlest kits on her tummy. They instinctively know exactly what to do. I allow them to feed this way until their little tummies swell, put them back in the nest, put mom back in her cage, put nest back in the cage with mom, she happily hops in and feeds everyone and your littlest ones had a head start in feeding so it won’t matter so much that they can’t compete during regular feedings. Until this method, I kept losing my smallest kits from each litter, through starvation, even with my attempts to feed them as you are considering. This mama fed method has been a life saver for those ones. You’ll need to help them this way for about 2 to 3 days. That seems to be enough good feedings to get them thru that critical period just after birth.

Now, some cautions to keep in mind with this method:

Putting mom on her back in your lap can work, but I found it to be cumbersome and very dangerous for the kits. If mom decides the jerk or kick, kits can go flying. My remedy is using a dishpan on a counter height table. I place the dishpan on the table with the shortest sides parallel to my stomach. Gently lay mom in, with her head up on the short edge furthest away from me, so mom and I can see each other. A lot of familiar soothing talk and sounds from me helps to keep mom relaxed. But she will be tense at first until she gets used to helping you help her babies this way.

BTW, prior to bringing mom in, the babies needing fed have already been moved out of the nest box and placed into a little cardboard box which is then placed within safe arm’s reach on or next to the table where I am putting mom. I have found having the kits on my right works best because I am right handed.

Also, as I position mom in the dishpan, I have found if I place her so that the length of her body is against the length of the right side of the dishpan, it frees up my right hand for petting and soothing her and for getting the kits safely onto her and keeping them there and putting them safely back into the box when finished feeding or if mom starts trying to get off of her back. My left hand is always cradling moms head and neck and often I use the thumb of that hand hooked around her nearest front paw to give her more stability.

In addition to supporting mom and allowing me to use my dominant hand to work with mom and the kits, the dishpan serves as a catch basin for when kits slide off of mom, and they will even if mom is laying perfectly still. I use my left forearm and the right side of the pan to creat a sort of cradle along the sides of moms belly, but you never know when one will slip through because they are squirmy, bouncing from one nipple to another and back again and all of this frenzied feeding activity upon a furred belly makes for a slippery situation.

I’ve tried placing 3 kits on mom’s belly this way and found it to be too dangerous for all involved. Mom gets edgy from the amount of activity and it’s just harder to keep everyone safe. So I have found it best to do this with only one or two of the smallest kits from each litter.

 

[Preitler]

There's the risk of upsetting the kits stomach by feeding stuff that isn't rabbit milk.
If I think some kits need a boost I take the fattest third of the litter out for one feeding, it doesn't hurt them if they miss a meal. Or, alternating with other kits, every 4th a few times.

Holding the doe didn't work for me, my rabbits aren't cool with that and it ended with a fataly injured kit. Sure, I was clumsy and so, but giving the weaker kits a better chance at the milk buffet by taking out some works well enough for me.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

If you have someone else that could help you, they could hold the Doe's front and back legs, while you make sure that the Kit eats.

I've found two ways to do it on my own:
I have Netherlands so they're not very big. I sit down somewhere on my knees, get a small hand towel and place it over the Doe's head and under her elbows, then hold the sides of my towel between my knees with her head above it. That way, I can hold her back legs and also hold the Kit.

The other way isn't as safe though. I put my hand under the arms of the Doe and life her so she's standing with her back legs on my leg. I use my other hand as a platform while the baby eats.

 

[ladysown]

You have to weigh out the interventions that you do.

There are ALOT Of rabbits in the world that do nothing to add to the genetic pool of rabbits in a positive way.
Rabbits being bred that simply shouldn't be bred.
This has led to faders, genetic issues, and rabbits that die if you look at them wrong.
One should always breed with the long term view in mind. Strong, healthy rabbits that thrive.
This means that sometimes you need to accept losses. AND I KNOW... It's hard. But when dealing with prey animals that are meant to be eaten or to die you need to think it all through.

Strong healthy animals are easier to care for. They will get sick less often, they won't be as prone to gastric upset or respiratory distress and will have a STRONG will to live and thrive. Both the will to live and the will to thrive are important with rabbits. The more you intervene the more you create rabbits that need help. STOP doing that.
Please. For all the other rabbit breeders out there make your rabbits the very best and strongest they can be.

I hate, absolutely hate, when I bring in new stock that it takes me at least two generations to regain hardiness in my herd. So many people are coddling rabbits that should not be coddled.

 

[Charliehooks]

@ladysown I fully agree with you I'm just thinking in terms of closing the weight gap in fryers

 

[ladysown]

I find that fryers close the weight gap on their own rather swiftly. Enough feed to keep them satisfied and so all get a turn at the trough works well. Also does separating them into small, same gender groups upon weaning.

 

[Skai]

You have to weigh out the interventions that you do.

There are ALOT Of rabbits in the world that do nothing to add to the genetic pool of rabbits in a positive way.
Rabbits being bred that simply shouldn't be bred.
This has led to faders, genetic issues, and rabbits that die if you look at them wrong.
One should always breed with the long term view in mind. Strong, healthy rabbits that thrive.
This means that sometimes you need to accept losses. AND I KNOW... It's hard. But when dealing with prey animals that are meant to be eaten or to die you need to think it all through.

Strong healthy animals are easier to care for. They will get sick less often, they won't be as prone to gastric upset or respiratory distress and will have a STRONG will to live and thrive. Both the will to live and the will to thrive are important with rabbits. The more you intervene the more you create rabbits that need help. STOP doing that.
Please. For all the other rabbit breeders out there make your rabbits the very best and strongest they can be.

I hate, absolutely hate, when I bring in new stock that it takes me at least two generations to regain hardiness in my herd. So many people are coddling rabbits that should not be coddled.

I agree with you. I am just now getting back into rabbits but I raised them for several years in the past. When I started out I went to the feed store and bought white, pink eyed rabbits. I didn't know one breed from another (and I really still don't) but that's what they had. One buck and two does. They were for meat...not showing...not pets. They were extremely healthy and productive. I only handled them enough for them to realize I wouldn't harm them. I never intervened with the does or her babies. They were in raised cages near the front of our barn. Fed mostly pellets with Bermuda hay. They had regular, large litters and I never had a sick rabbit. I lost two kits (one out of two litters) when the doe ate them. I was never sure why but I was told the kit may have been stillborn. She was otherwise a very good mother.

I also think the sanitation mania is detrimental to rabbit health. It is normal for kits to eat the mom's poop. She passes on her healthy immune system that way and it helps them to create good intestinal bacteria. If you are constantly removing all signs of poop then they will certainly not be as healthy, and then will need "coddling".

 

[KelleyBee]

You have to weigh out the interventions that you do.

There are ALOT Of rabbits in the world that do nothing to add to the genetic pool of rabbits in a positive way.
Rabbits being bred that simply shouldn't be bred.
This has led to faders, genetic issues, and rabbits that die if you look at them wrong.
One should always breed with the long term view in mind. Strong, healthy rabbits that thrive.
This means that sometimes you need to accept losses. AND I KNOW... It's hard. But when dealing with prey animals that are meant to be eaten or to die you need to think it all through.

Strong healthy animals are easier to care for. They will get sick less often, they won't be as prone to gastric upset or respiratory distress and will have a STRONG will to live and thrive. Both the will to live and the will to thrive are important with rabbits. The more you intervene the more you create rabbits that need help. STOP doing that.
Please. For all the other rabbit breeders out there make your rabbits the very best and strongest they can be.

I hate, absolutely hate, when I bring in new stock that it takes me at least two generations to regain hardiness in my herd. So many people are coddling rabbits that should not be coddled.

I eat the ones that are little. I see the 2-3 days of newborn feeding intervention as worth a meal on my table. Today I am finishing up processing a litter of 9. They all weigh over 6 pounds except for the littlest one I helped survive. She weighs about 3.5 pounds. She will probably dress out at 2 pounds. That’s a meal on the table for me and hubby. She was never in need of any other special attention once I got her over the hump. I understand your point of view, especially if someone is knowingly passing off sickly animals. But don’t assume we all are doing that. This little girl survived instead of died, received lots of hugs and kisses from me and had a chance to experience cuddling and playing with her litter mates for 12.5 weeks. Just like her litter mates, now she will serve her ultimate purpose for existing, which is being a meal for our family. Interestingly, I learned the method of intervention I’ve shared from ARBA’s book, Raising Better Rabbits and Cavies.

 

[ladysown]

ah, some of it is because I run in two worlds... the meat rabbit world (which tends to think more about.. you breed the best and eat the rest).
And the fancy world of rabbits... which often babies sickly rabbits and then turn around and sell them.. healthy or not. I find it immensely frustrating.