Smaller Buck to Large Doe?

[user 3309]

Howdy folks!
New to the forums and started the rabbit scene at the beginning of December.

This is my Rex; Jack (Six months old) He's a great climber and can scale the NIC walls like it's a ladder!





I couldn't find this situation online and was wondering if it's possible to breed a smaller rabbit to a larger breed doe?
Example is: lionhead buck to a New Zealand White Doe. I could imagine the buck will have a tough time mounting even if the doe was very receptive?

Got a white lionhead with blue eyes and still thinking of a good name for him.

 

[akane]

If the doe isn't too difficult it works fine. The smaller buck can easily get squashed and a bit beat up by a more aggressive doe and the doe has to lift well.

 

[Dood]

I am curious why you'd want to cross a Blue Eyed White (BEW)...

lionhead buck to a New Zealand White Doe.

 

[user 3309]

To make a New Lionhead! :lol:

I was just a crazy idea that I will not follow through.

 

[ckcs]

To make a New Lionhead! :lol:

I was just a crazy idea that I will not follow through.

Your new zealand white is a REW (ruby eyed white) and your lionhead is a BEW (Blue eyed white). If I am correct, the general consensus is that you should not breed a BEW to a REW or to a rabbit that carries REW. Someone more knowledgeable will correct me or explain why.

While it is not a crazy idea there are some things you need to know and consider. A couple of board members (Myself and MSD) have projects that involve crossing a lionhead with another breed. Mine is with a Holland Lop to make a Lionlop based off a Holland Lop. MSD is working with a Lionhead and Mini Rex to get Rex fur on a lionhead. Of the two, MSD's project is cooler. A Lionlop already exists, I'm doing it more for fun and I've had no problems getting rid of the babies while I pursue the goal.

1) What do you hope to accomplish crossing the New Zealand and Lionhead? A larger lionhead is all that I can see that would be accomplished. I see very little market for such a mix. It would unlikely be big enough to be a meat breed. It wouldn't appeal to most pet owners as one of the lionheads appeal is it's small size. I find a Giant Lionhead somewhat appealing but not sure the image in my head would match reality. For a truly large Lionhead, I suspect a larger breed than NZ would need to be used.
2) Creating a new breed takes multiple often many generations to get to look right. Assuming your lionhead is a double mane (DM) all your kits will be Single Mane. You would need to breed 2 kits together to get a DM Lionhead and even then your odds will be 1 in 4 will be DM. From there my guess is that you would need to breed the DM kit back to a New Zealand and repeat the process until you got a DM large Lionhead. Odds are great but there are no guarantees that you will get the desired kit in a litter. Despite of 25% odd, I have head 3 litters with a total of 11 babies in my project and none where DM.
3) Do you have a method to get rid of the babies? They will not be very desirable and will be very difficult to find homes for. If you eat rabbits or can use rabbit meat for dogs or snake then that will solve this problem. You could just cull the unwanted babies and I'm ok with that too, though many may oppose.

Personally if you want to get into breeding I'd get another Lionhead or Mini Rex to breed either of those two breeds. Starting with the best quality rabbits you can get is a big plus too.

 

[akane]

There's no health reason not to cross BEW and REW. The only problem is that REW will mask BEW and since they are different genes of course no offspring will be either color. They will be a combo of the colors hiding under the whites. People don't really like mixing BEW into any other color line really. You can never guarantee it's gone since it's recessive and offspring with random white streaks will pop up occasionally or sometimes often. If you are just making mutts for food or pet sales then it doesn't really matter and the marked offspring may even sell better. That cross though probably won't sell for pets very well. The size extremes sell well but not the stuff in the middle. The mane will probably low quality to nonexistent in the first gen cross. All you'd do is make a small meat rabbit with no market except your own freezer.

 

[user 3309]

ckcs:

1. A larger lionhead will be the main goal for me. I like Leo's personality with his looks and BEW was an added bonus.

2. If I do decide to breed Leo with my REW NZW, I'll have to be extra vigilant for his safety from the larger doe.

3. I have friends who will adopt the bunnies. I have the bucks and the doe separated for accidental breeding and kindling.

Here's a photo of Leo I just took: I want to say single maned?

 

[Dood]

Leo looks like a double mane as single manes loose the longer hair on the back legs as they moult, so all the kits will be single and loose most, and possibly all, of their mane as adults.

The kits will not be white. They will all be vienna carriers and the most likely colour is chestnut, steel and/or black.

New Zealand does frequently have 8 to 12 kits who will probably take after mom and weigh 6 to 10 pounds.

 

[user 3309]

That's good to know, thanks Dood!

 

[ckcs]

Good luck on the project and keep us posted on the results.

 

[squidpop]

Your project is possible but you might want to look into how much you really want to do it- you'll be working with recessive genes to get the mane and to get the colour right will take lots of cages and finding homes for the parents and grandparents or keeping them - either way lots of cages and lots of work.

 

[gardenbunny]

my buck looks just like that one, a rex he was too brown to be used as a show rabbit in a friend's show rabbitry. love his coat. i breed him to a 8 mon old nzw ( she's on day 27) hope it worked out.
at first she wouldn't lift so he didn't finish, which i knew what that looked like from when i tried to breed him to another rex last year.
i tried twice a day 2 days in a row then waited a day and tried again and finally she lifted and he finished 3 times. hope she has lots of babies

 

[user 3309]

Oh my Rex Buck, Jack appears to be an experienced "lover" and falls off the does that he mounted so far.
Leo can't get any satisfaction currently, but it was fun to watch him attempting to woo the NZW's!

 

[gardenbunny]

my mother says i'm being evil and mean when i tease him with a female he can't have but i'm trying to see if showing her to him will put her in the mood. poor guy runs in circles and stands up licking his lips begging for her ... is that bad does that cause stale sperm the next time he breeds?( that might be a really stupid question, i've heard alot of old wives tales, like holding the bunny or putting her in a holding cage for an hour after breeding so she doesn't pee)

 

[user 3309]

I did read somewhere that on average a buck has the capacity to breed (and fall off) once or twice a day.
Need confirmation on that though.

 

[Dood]

There are no stupid questions

does that cause stale sperm the next time he breeds?

No. Only excessive heat or cold can temporarily damage sperm - not pining for a female

i've heard alot of old wives tales, like holding the bunny or putting her in a holding cage for an hour after breeding so she doesn't pee

I've not heard this one before :shock: and definitely an old wives tale !

 

[gardenbunny]

thank you! the hard part about being a new breeder is old farmers telling me the old wives tales haha, thank you for your help.