Size Matters... Matters of Size (Flemish Giants)

[TF3]

So.
I really love my FG buck and my mostly FG doe (sold as purebred, brindled and a little small).
I got them both as young adults, from places they were never handled and they have stellar personalities.
(I have three other adults, other, breeds/ mutts purchased as adults that are shy, skittish etc. no comparison)
The doe is an excellent mom, and kits are big and healthy and friendly.
They are both within size by the standard.

But size has its drawbacks...
feed costs, housing space, poop that is too big for the wire floors :lol:

And I recently attended a rabbit show and *insert jaw dropping smilie* I saw 20+ pound FGs. :x :x :lol:
I don't want *that*~ I mean they were amazing, and one took Best in Show, and I don't want to take anything away from them, but holy cow.

I want to breed big, healthy, friendly rabbits that can make excellent, hardy pets OR add to a meat project.
It seems to me to be a more accessible size~ and more reasonable within our rabbitry and goals.
I know that keeping size up can be tricky, so that has to be bred for...
but is there any *reason* that breeding rabbits on the lower end of the scale isn't ok?
A 15 lb/ FG that meets the standard is still a perfectly good FG, yes?

((And since I do want to play with colours (which will not be acceptable FG colours) maybe I should just go for it, have fun and sell or eat some really pretty, friendly big but not giant bunnies?!))
... just re-reading that, it sounds like way more fun than stressing over the rest of it... but I struggle with coloring outside the lines! :shock:

 

[3mina]

Just keep in mind whether or not you want to show. Showing smaller rabbits that meet the standard except for weight won't be competitive and, trust me, getting your backside handed to you at every show stops being fun quickly. However, breeding experiments are always interesting, and colouring outside the lines is how creativity and imagination are expressed, so have fun with it.

 

[Zass]

:artist:

It sounds to me like you've already made up your mind.

 

[fhjmom]

Just curious if you have read the Standard for the FG? The reason I ask is because my interpretation would cause me to answer your question, "A 15 lb/ FG that meets the standard is still a perfectly good FG, yes?" with a "No". The reason I say this is because the Standard makes it clear that while balance is extremely important a larger rabbit with balance is better than a smaller rabbit with balance. Here are some phrases taken from the Standard:

"While a large, heavy animal is desired..."
"body as long and powerful as possible"
"Hindquarters should be broad and massive."
"Size should exemplify the giant characteristics"

Now, that being said, go ahead and breed for what you want in your herd. We raise rabbits to have fun and we should do what we enjoy.I would just caution you from convincing yourself that you would still be breeding to the Standard by breeding smaller Giants.

I know you said you had a few rabbits of other breeds that didn't have the same personality as your Flemish, but three rabbits purchased as adults is hardly a good sample size. If you really want to raise smaller (and by smaller I mean not as big as the Flemish goal weights, not a small rabbit by most people's standards, LOL!) rabbits, why not consider another breed that is desirable in the size you wish to breed to? Then find a breeder that you can trust to breed for temperament as well as quality and get them as youngsters. Just a thought!

 

[TF3]

Thank you!
i think I need to think about something that lines up better with my goals, because I don't feel 'fun' trying to make a square peg fit a round hole, so to speak.

Tamara-- thank you, that is the perspective I'm seeking.
And I really don't want massive, so I think I do need to consider something more moderate.

I needed to type it out to sort it out and be honest before getting too far along.
And really, I'm a sucker for the hunt... Breed, stock, whatever...!

 

[akane]

If you want something just a little smaller try champagne d'argent (my buck maxed at 12lbs but they aren't supposed to get quite that big) or american chinchillas. There are giant chinchillas which are like FG and standard chinchillas which are a small meat breed. These breeds only come in one color so purebred *should* produce 100% acceptable color. With these rarer breeds every now and then that doesn't happen because lacking enough stock someone mixes something somewhere. That's why I'm not suggesting something like creme d'argent or cinnamons. Being even rarer in most locations they get a lot of NZR crossed in. It reduces the silvering of argents and often the NZR have backgrounds that are not red so you get things like torts or rew popping up. If you can find a good population of such breeds though they are nice for meat and tend to sell well because of rarity. The colors are also still interesting in some single color breeds like champagnes because they go through all sorts of weird growout stages with unique patches and streaks of black and silver for awhile. It's amusing.

 

[TF3]

Very interesting!
I'm going to do a little 'market research' to see what is and isn't in our region.
I don't want a pet only breed because we have the HLops and I really feel that I need to have an assured end of the line when breeding something more (ie meat-- dog, people, whatever).

I'm a colour girl, totally.
I'm fascinated by the genetics and being a dyer by trade, well... LOL
So while I find some of the single colours stunning, I want to play more with colour

I have meat mutts as well as a couple nice bucks (NZR broken and a Cali).

I'm thinking Satin or Standard Rex.
As a fiber artist I'm drawn to the woollies but my allergies say no

 

[Homer]

The reason I say this is because the Standard makes it clear that while balance is extremely important a larger rabbit with balance is better...

You hit the nail right on the head. :yes: I just had a 6-8 doe at a show. Her first time out was great (while in her age group) but...when she went up against the other seniors my 15 pound bunny lost out.

Had a judge tell me once, "it's all about MASS". Not much point in raising Flemish if you don't go for all the marbles...or maybe trying to enhance your meat stock.

 

[Schipperkesue]

I would keep in mind that there may also be an interest in Flemish at the smaller end of the spectrum. They still make good meat rabbits, have that lovely temperament and yet take up a smaller space. I have smaller Flemish. I tell prospective buyers what size to expect and do not show. Showing is fun, but I have them for meat first and I find most of my buyers are looking for pet or meat and not for show.

 

[TF3]

Two excellent perspectives!
Sue-- that is my thinking, and I'm going to keep my FGs but I think that given the number of people with similar animals in the area, like mine, probably mediocre as FGs, I am going to look at some other options.
And I'm going to try and get myself a nice gold tipped steel out of the ones I have LOL (I hit one this time but the runt!).