Should you Cull for Snuffles?

[RedRex]

I don't have any rabbits yet, but I've been doing some researching.

I read that snuffles is basically a non-curable disease, and many breeders cull rabbits who have it. Is that what should be done for snuffles?

Thanks. :bunnyhop:

 

[DBA]

From my understanding, if it is pastuerella, it can be vaccinated against, but if they get it, it is pretty much incurable. I may be wrong, but that was my understanding.

 

[Zass]

You can read about the pasteurella vaccine.

http://pavlab.com/pavlab/bunnyvac/
the only thing it promises is

effective in preventing death and limiting disease

Since Pasteurellosis is caused by many different strains of bacteria and not a virus, many breeders are understandably dubious as to the effectiveness.

I also did not see any promises that the vaccinated rabbits would no longer be contagious to others.

Consequently, most still choose to cull towards strong immune systems.

Feel free to read the only clinical trial I know of, a 60 day study on 30 rabbits:

http://pavlab.com/pavlab/bunnyvac/bunny ... l-summary/

The vaccine significantly lowered the duration of the disease from a median of 15 days to 9 days. The severity of disease in the vaccinated animals was also lower.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Pasteurella is supposedly present in just about any rabbitry you can find.

There are two main types- respiratory and systemic. The respiratory type causes "Snuffles", with infection in the upper respiratory tract and sometimes the lungs. The systemic type causes abscesses in the body.

There are several strains that affect different species, and in rabbits there are either multiple strains or certain rabbits have superior resistance. Some cases of "the dreaded P" will wipe out an entire herd within days, whereas in others only an occasional rabbit is symptomatic.

The reason we cull for it is because you want to breed only those rabbits that never show symptoms and thus have strong immune systems that resist infection.

Pasteurella is easily treated with antibiotics in cats, humans, and a variety of other animals. Sadly, in rabbits this is not the case since they have very little blood flow to the sinus cavities where the bacteria thrive.

From my understanding, if it is pastuerella, it can be vaccinated against, but if they get it, it is pretty much incurable.

:canofworms: We have an entire thread devoted to discussion of the vaccine. There is some debate as to whether it is effective at all, since it was developed using the bovine strain of Pasteurella, not one specific to rabbits.

info-about-pan-american-vet-labs-vaccine-for-pasteurella-t15713.html

 

[Dood]

I've known many PET rabbits that were successfully treated for Pasturella but I would NEVER breed a rabbit that came down with snuffles so to answer you question - it would depend on the circumstances and since I breed rabbits I personally would cull (kill) any rabbit that showed symptoms <br /><br /> -- Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:49 pm -- <br /><br /> I just remembered you wanted to colony raise your rabbits - in this system you must be even more ruthless in weeding out the weak immune systems as the rabbits are in close physical contact with each other and their wastes and I would ABSOLUTELY cull any rabbit with with first sign of disease.

 

[ladysown]

Ditto to what dood said.

I've seen colony raised rabbits where disease and fighting were allowed as "a natural course" of events. NOT a good scene.

Wean out your non-keepers early to prevent fighting among the bucks and cull hard for strong immune systems.

 

[3mina]

Dood has said it all. Any rabbit in my herd that blows opaque white snot is culled. Pasteurella is probably the number one reason I don't sell pets, as if they come down with it very few (read almost none) pet people will make sure it doesn't spread.

 

[Susie570]

Something I've been wondering fit a while regarding snuffles.

Folks talk about rabbits having a certain immunity to it and how most (if not all) rabbits have been exposed to it.

If your rabbits are immune, why do people lose entire herds of rabbits? It seems obvious that if they suddenly come down with it after being exposed, they are no more immune than the sick rabbit was. Also, if they are immune, can they be carriers and pass it to a rabbit that truly has never been exposed?

 

[Zass]

Something I've been wondering fit a while regarding snuffles.

Folks talk about rabbits having a certain immunity to it and how most (if not all) rabbits have been exposed to it.

If your rabbits are immune, why do people lose entire herds of rabbits? It seems obvious that if they suddenly come down with it after being exposed, they are no more immune than the sick rabbit was. Also, if they are immune, can they be carriers and pass it to a rabbit that truly has never been exposed?

From here:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 3&aid=2686

There are several different strains of these gram negative bacteria and depending on the strain that infects a particular rabbit, the signs can be either mild or severe. Some strains are commonly found in the nasal tract of rabbits, but may not cause infections unless the animal is stressed or has a suppressed immune system

So yeah, some strains are much nastier than others. When we cull white snot, we are potentially getting rid of either a dangerous strain, or a rabbit with a weak immune system that couldn't handle a less aggressive strain. Either one tends to be a good idea from a breeder's perspective.

If your rabbits happen to be immune to a really nasty strain...so much the better. Yes...they still can and do infect others. (which is why it's still around)

Any time you bring in new rabbits or take your rabbits where others are...you are running some risk of infection with strains your rabbits may not be immune to. Quarantine provides a small measure of protection, but obviously, it isn't going to prevent all infections. All we can really do is reduce stress and respiratory irritants, and make sure our rabbits have what they need nutritionally and psychologically keep their immune systems healthy.

This is kind of a balance of nature thing, with humans preforming the role of predators to help keep a prey species fit...

 

[ottersatin]

Hello RedRex,
I am riding with Dood,MSd & LS on this one.
YES, you should Cull/Kill any Rabbit showing signs of weakness
especially those will symptoms of Pasteurella.
By using strict culling, you can maintain a seemingly illness FREE
healthy herd. I do not treat for anything but the very minor problems.
[EX- Nestbox eye.] If the problem is not corrected in a "shot time",
the rabbit will be culled! The entire herd is worth the risk of saving
one or two or in some cases even dozens of individuals.
"A stitch in time saves nine" I at one point, many years ago
due to not doing what I do now, had to put down one third to one half of my herd.
Even a prize winning Rabbit, is no prize if it is infected with Snuffles.
By culling those with any weakness you WILL develop a STRONG, DISEASE resistant Herd.
So My answer is: YES, you not only should, but you MUST CULL for Pasteurella Prevention.
After stating that I have to say: We all must do what we feel is best for our HERD!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Dood]

Something I've been wondering fit a while regarding snuffles.

Folks talk about rabbits having a certain immunity to it and how most (if not all) rabbits have been exposed to it.

If your rabbits are immune, why do people lose entire herds of rabbits? It seems obvious that if they suddenly come down with it after being exposed, they are no more immune than the sick rabbit was. Also, if they are immune, can they be carriers and pass it to a rabbit that truly has never been exposed?

They must also be exposed to an "infectious dose" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_dose otherwise their immune systems won't be overwhelmed and the bacteria will be defeated often before symptoms appear.

Gobs is snot, air full of sneeze particles and mutual grooming will all spread disease like wildfire because there are HUGE quantities of bacteria in them and the immune system gets quickly overwhelmed and doesn't have time to produce antibodies to nip the infection in the bud

This is why cleanliness and good air flow is so important in livestock housing - they can usually handle small doses of disease but not a shot glass full

 

[Susie570]

Thanks Dood and Zass
That answered my questions!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Something I've been wondering fit a while regarding snuffles.

Folks talk about rabbits having a certain immunity to it and how most (if not all) rabbits have been exposed to it.

If your rabbits are immune, why do people lose entire herds of rabbits? It seems obvious that if they suddenly come down with it after being exposed, they are no more immune than the sick rabbit was. Also, if they are immune, can they be carriers and pass it to a rabbit that truly has never been exposed?

If they come down with it, they weren't immune. I think it's better to use the term "resistant" than immune, since infection largely depends on bacterial load. Rabbits with good immune systems can be exposed to it and not develop an infection because the bacteria is not able to invade and replicate in their bodies. That is resistance, and they would not be "carriers" or able to pass the infection. Rabbits with weaker immune systems can be exposed and become infected either actively or latently. Both would be considered "carriers" and both would be able to pass the infection on.

 

[Susie570]

That's also very good information
It makes sense that rabbits with a good immune system can fight off a 'brush' with P, but if they are heavily exposed will still become infected. I guess it's impossible to tell whether any rabbit might be a 'carrier' with a latent P infection as, I understand, it can hide for years.

Perhaps, eventually, a true P vaccine will be available and everyone's rabbits will be safe from it. The studies of rabbits who are born from an infected doe who is treated with a strong antiviral during pregnancy might be a path toward that, I would think. Aren't they supposed to be truly immune to the disease?

 

[Ramjet]

I've never dealt with a full blown case of the dreaded P but I'm overly cautious to the point of paranoia when it comes to the snuffles.
The first signs of it and that rabbit is moved to quarantine double time and the entire rabbitry gets a thorough bleach bath.
If that quarantined rabbit shows further signs of infection , I cull it. One rabbit is just not worth the risk to my entire herd that I have put multiple years of care & effort into developing.

Perhaps, eventually, a true P vaccine will be available and everyone's rabbits will be safe from it. The studies of rabbits who are born from an infected doe who is treated with a strong antiviral during pregnancy might be a path toward that, I would think. Aren't they supposed to be truly immune to the disease?

The thing about bacteria is that being a lower life form , it mutates at a rate that's difficult to keep up with. I doubt you could count the different strains of pasteurella much less come up with a vaccine that would grant total immunity , then you realize the bacteria continues to evolve and your vaccine has to evolve with it.
Just imagine the cost we'd endure in funding some pharmaceutical company's attempt to produce this ever evolving vaccine.

For an example , think of the bill you got the last time you took the dog or cat to the vet .... now multiply that by X rabbits!

It's much more cost effective to selectively breed & cull for resistance .... I couldn't afford to keep rabbits if they weren't cheap.

 

[RedRex]

Thanks a lot for your responses, everyone. I learned a lot from your posts, this definitely answered my questions.

 

[3mina]

In a way a pasteurella vaccine is similar to a rhinovirus (common cold) vaccine because there are similar numbers of strains of each IMO.

 

[michaels4gardens]

JMHO, - a lot of rabbits / rabbitries become infected shortly after bringing in new rabbits, thus a new strain of bacteria. Bringing in new rabbits to a commercially successful herd is avoided by most long time producers. also- some other things cause an immune system crash, and then a rash of disease symptoms, -for instance a little diseased bird poop in feed, or moldy feed, or hay will cause a "crash" with symptoms showing up as much as 6 weeks later. also- poor ventilation [mentioned above] , and excess ammonia in the environment . [rabbits are sensitive to the ammonia in the urine and good ventilation , and sanitary protocols is a must.] If rabbits get too hot and thus "stressed" they will become much less resistant to disease. -- so-- I think the key to keeping a "well " rabbitry is mostly preventive. - again JMHO