Should we cull the whole flock?

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So we have several chickens. One set is a year old, and another set we bought in May of this year.

(Back story from 2014)

Now last year the girls did fantastic! 2 dozen eggs a day, happy, healthy couldn't ask for a better start! When we got them from Farm and Fleet, they were just a few days old at the time, and did not lose a single bird. My husband, and I got also got 4 Tom Bronze Turkeys, but we got them from Rural King since they were the only ones that had them. The day we got them 2 died just hours after bringing them home. We called Rural King, and they blamed us! To which I called a vet friend of mine, with Rural King on the phone also, and asked "We just got these turkeys maybe 8 hours ago, is there anything I personally could have done that would result in their deaths." I gave her a list of the feeds, supplements, and they're brooder box. She said there is no way I could have killed them in such a short amount of time. Rural King sucked it up, and replaced the 2 turkeys. Guess what, the next day I found the 2 replacements dead as a door nail in the brooder, and the remaining 2 died a few months later!

(Fast forward to this year in May.)

My Buff hen went Broody, sat on her eggs, but they failed to hatch so my husband, and I looked everywhere for chicks so she would be encouraged to broody next year. Well being May around here it's a bit late in the season, and a lot of stores stop selling in May, the ONLY place left was Rural King. *Ugh* but we gave them another shot. We bought 15 Light Bahamas. 2 died a few days after bringing them home, 2 more died a week after that, and 1 developed Marek's, and I hand raised her inside the house until she passed away at 4 months. Since then, I have found 2 more randomly dead overnight. Last week yet another died. I failed to mention that my year old girls completely stopped laying about 2 weeks after we got the chicks.

(Today.)

I do my normal routine get up at 5:30AM get my husbands lunch ready, and see him off to work. Make myself some coffee, and poke around the internet until our 3 year old daughter wakes up, usually around 6:30 - 7. By 7:30 we make our rounds with the animals. First we feed, and water the rabbits, and quail in the garage. Then we head to the backyard to the chicken coop. I come around the corner to see my Barred Rock roo slumped over, head down, and not wanting to walk much, but still peaking at the feed on the ground. As I look into the coop there I see 1 New Hampshire Red hen dead, 1 Barred Rock hen dead, and 1 Light Brahma dead! Upon further inspection I see that over half my flock is greatly sick. For months they have not been worth meat, or eggs, and now they are dropping like flies.

I called my husband in a panic, and starting discussing culling the entire flock, starting fresh next spring with meat birds.

I want to gather some opinions before the final decision. Do you guys think it would just be best to completely start over next year?
 

MamaSheepdog

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Wow, what an awful turn of events! :cry:

I have never had any illness in my chicken flock, so have no idea what help to offer diagnosis wise. :(

Hopefully someone with more poultry raising experience will chime in, but I would be inclined to cull the flock since winter is coming on and production would drop even in a healthy flock.

You can disinfect the coop and run and let it sit until next year, by which point hopefully whatever organism is responsible for the issue will have died.
 

Prisma

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Get them tested by the Ag Department if you can. My dad had a similar thing happen. Got good healthy birds from TSC, got some eggs and hatched them, than random deaths started from seemingly healthy birds from hatching age through 2 and 3 years old.

Was suggested by a friend to have the ag come out and test (they do for free). Tests came back that they had cocci as well as Mycoplasma Synoviae. Also tested for Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (negative for this). These things you can get from wild birds even flying around, only way NOT to have any chance is a completely enclosed place that is scrubbed top to bottom daily and high quarantine procedures followed to the letter. Eggs are safe to use and so is meat (follow withdraw times on medications used to treat). Ag rep said to keep the strong ones back and let nature take its course, treat for the cocci as needed of course and will end up with a strong hardy set of birds in the end.
 

Ramjet

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Curious if you have done a necropsy on any of the dead ? Has to be some reason why its happening .... I'd sure want to find out the cause so I could fix / avoid it down the line.
I haven't had chickens in ~20 years , ours were always free range and never had issues.

If its not something you can spot , it might be worth taking one to a vet to examine and get some answers. (go figure , me saying go to the vet).
The reason I say that is because some parasites / bacteria can live for years in the soil. Coccidiosis being one of those ....

This from an article on it:

http://www.chickenwhisperermagazine.com ... -treatment

Clinical signs include mucus-like or bloody diarrhea, dehydration, anemia, listlessness, ruffled feathers, stunted growth, and death. Coccidiosis is also commonly associated with a drop in egg production.
 
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Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry, and Ramjet. I could kiss you both! Coccidiosis is a B.I.N.G.O! Everything I just read fits to the exact T, and I am feeling just a little bit more hopeful that I can get this caught before any more damage is done, and I will not lose my entire flock.

Now, what I can to help treat it?

Does Coccidiosis effect their egg laying? (Since they haven't been laying in so long.)
 

Prisma

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Sulmet is what he used, followed directions on the bottle. Initially, took 2 months of treating and then haven't treated since. He is going to treat again in the spring, but doesn't want to over medicate. That's for the coccidiosis.

The other 2, there is no treatment. The only way to get rid of it is completely culling all birds and then removing the building/dirt/etc completely, waiting few years, and then doing a complete closed enclosure with the high quarantine practices (nothing in and out, change cloths at entry/exit, strict daily cleaning, etc).

BOTH will cause problems with their eggs. Will make no eggs to odd eggs and even rough shells on them. It will also make the ones that are weaker sick and die off...you don't want to try to baby the sick ones along unfortunately.
 

Ramjet

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HansenHomestead":2jdwt8iq said:
Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry, and Ramjet. I could kiss you both! Coccidiosis is a B.I.N.G.O! Everything I just read fits to the exact T, and I am feeling just a little bit more hopeful that I can get this caught before any more damage is done, and I will not lose my entire flock.

Now, what I can to help treat it?

Does Coccidiosis effect their egg laying? (Since they haven't been laying in so long.)


Read that link I posted above , says one of the symptoms is a drop in egg production.


As for how to clean up - for the coop itself I would use ammonia as it will kill cocci while bleach wont.

I've read that Borax can be used to get rid of it in the soil and that's probably the thing you most need to treat other than the birds themselves. I've read several places that cocci can remain in the soil as long as 50 years.
 
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We have coccidiosis here, I treat all chicks once a week by feeding finely chopped onion tops, ...-- or I use Corid [a coccidiostat] in the water for the first couple of months until they develop an immunity, - once the chickens get grown it is not a problem unless they get very stressed , and the immune system crashes. getting rid of the surviving chickens will not fix the problem, once you have coccidiosis on your farm, it is there to stay,[it can live in the soil for at least 50 years] -- and you will have to treat all new birds until they develop an immunity... you probably brought it in with the chickens, and turkeys from Rural King...
 

Marinea

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What Michael said. You're going to have to just consider whatever treatment you decide on as a part of your routine. Bringing in new stock? Treat them all. Something go kafluey and upset everyone? Treat them all.

*fingers crossed that your rough spell will be over soon*
 
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I'm so sorry to hear all that you've gone through! I've had rough patches and it really is discouraging :angry:

This has me thinking though... my hens haven't laid well most of the summer and have pretty much stopped. This is close to 40 chickens! I know this is an off season, but with quite a few "coming of age" I expected to have at least an egg or two every now and then. I wonder if there is something more amiss? For the most part I have had a closed flock, but I did take in a few chickens from DH's cousin b/c he just didn't have time for them, and then I bought a few chicks from Southern States to stick under a few broody hens.
 

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I'm not so sure cocci is there to stay once its introduced .... ammonia will kill it off on most surfaces and I've read many places that you can rid them from the soil by applying Borax.

You will have to treat any and all animals and the soil .... probably multiple times or it's just going to repopulate.

A serious complication would be neighbors with critters .... who are infected.

It's reported that most domestic livestock - some 75% or more of dogs & cats and a large majority of others like rabbits , chickens and so on have them but aren't affected unless they are stressed or otherwise immune challenged.

I have a strong suspicion that most people who struggle with weaning enteritis in their rabbits are dealing with cocci as young animals are much more susceptible.
 
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Thank you everyone for your replies, and information. I started yesterday by taking every water/feed bucket, and scrubbing the living hell out of it. Put apple cider vinegar in their water, and mixing garlic into their food. This will now become part of my daily routine.

As for the Borax, is it okay to use on the ground with the chickens still in there?

This weekend I am going to be scrubbing down the coop, and everything inside it. It was pretty much a sleepless night now me last night. I'm just so overwhelmed lately with everything going wrong.

I would like to free range them, but when we did it a few months back the girls got attacked my the neighbors cat, and his friends dog ended up losing 5 total from that. So that's a no go.

-----

**UPDATE**

Just watched our rooster die... Predicting that we lose at least 5 more who are looking the worse. I'm tired, depressed, and sort of running out of hope..
 

Prisma

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I know its bad, still wish it was easier, but its better if the ones that aren't up to par to pass. The stronger ones will do well and be your better chickens. With dad's, he lost all but 5 out of 40. That 5 has turned into 15 strong hens and he is going to save some back in spring too.
 

Ramjet

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I think you have to come to a decision on what the best course of action is .... culling them all or keeping those who survive the problems & having a base to the flock that has some immunity. That's a tough decision .... I'd start by determining how ill they are and if any are actually productive now.
It may also be easier to solve the problem if you don't have animals living in the affected area , giving you time for a total clean up before animals are introduced rather than cleaning this part today and that part next chance you get .... with the animals contaminating what you have already done in the mean time.
 

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