SF choc/blue

[lissapell]

I have been looking at the SF show rabbits and see where they were just approved for showing as blues and chocolates. There are a few people who say they have blues, chocolates, and lilac in SF. I have heard that blues were shown a long time ago and pop up from time to time but where do the other colors come from? Do they breed in for that color and then breed back out so many generation?

 

[phillinley]

They are not approved for showing yet, they are still in the presentation stage. The blue's passed their second presentation and the chocolates failed their first chance at the second presentation. So next year the blues have one more presentation to be approved as a variety and the chocolates still need two, but if they fail next year it will be a long wait for approval.

Chocolates were developed by Meara Collins with the original crosses containing Silver Fox and Chocolate Satins. She has been developing them for I believe she told me was 14 years, so she's been developing the variety since she was a kid. I haven't the slightest where lilacs come from. It's not even a variety that has anyone I know of attempting to get a certificate of development much less be ready to pass a presentation.

 

[skysthelimit]

Lilac is simply a dilute of chocolate. So if you have the dilute blue gene, and the chocolate gene, getting a lilac is a matter of course. I now have the chocolate gene in my Rex herd, and nearly every rabbit here carries dilute, so it's only a matter time before I get a lilac or lilac otter (since my otters carry chocolate).

 

[phillinley]

Lilac is imply a dilute of chocolate. So if you have the dilute blue gene, and the chocolate gene, getting a lilac is a matter of course. I now have the chocolate gene in my Rex herd, and nearly every rabbit here carries dilute, so it's only a matter time before I get a lilac or lilac otter (since my otters carry chocolate).

I understand where the lilac gene comes from, but given that the chocolates have only been spread throughout the country a lot starting around the Minneapolis ARBA convention a couple years back, finding a lilac silver fox is going to be a rarity. You could have a Silver Fox crossed with something else and have a Lilac mutt, but the likelihood of finding a true silver fox with lilac in the coat isn't something that's common right now. So what I was trying to get at was, it's not something you're going to see on a show table in quite some time given there is no one publicly even looking to breed a herd of this type to work towards a CoD.

 

[skysthelimit]

That makes sense. But my Silver Fox breeder has chocolate in her herd, so not such a rarity for me. I could find out where she got hers from and maybe that would answer a question. There is also someone here in Ohio that has chocolate and blue, she was at the Medina show a few weekends ago, had the judge look over the chocolate afterwards. Not that hard for me to see them at all.

 

[phillinley]

That makes sense. But my Silver Fox breeder has chocolate in her herd, so not such a rarity for me. I could find out where she got hers from and maybe that would answer a question. There is also someone here in Ohio that has chocolate and blue, she was at the Medina show a few weekends ago, had the judge look over the chocolate afterwards. Not that hard for me to see them at all.

You see the lilac a lot? Or the chocolate a lot? I was talking about the lilac not showing up too often. Just because you personally see them a lot does not change the fact that they are not seen very often by the majority of the country.


Just checked all of the Silver Fox groups and message boards I am on. A total of one sale post for a lilac Silver Fox in any of those groups over the last three years. Lilac was described as incredibly rare too.

 

[skysthelimit]

That makes sense. But my Silver Fox breeder has chocolate in her herd, so not such a rarity for me. I could find out where she got hers from and maybe that would answer a question. There is also someone here in Ohio that has chocolate and blue, she was at the Medina show a few weekends ago, had the judge look over the chocolate afterwards. Not that hard for me to see them at all.

You see the lilac a lot? Or the chocolate a lot? I was talking about the lilac not showing up too often. Just because you personally see them a lot does not change the fact that they are not seen very often by the majority of the country.


Just checked all of the Silver Fox groups and message boards I am on. A total of one sale post for a lilac Silver Fox in any of those groups over the last three years. Lilac was described as incredibly rare too.

Rare is not nonexistent. I don't bother with most of those Yahoo or FB groups, I don't shop there or advertise there, so I don't know what they do. You'd be surprised how many people breed and don't have websites, belong to the ARBA or breed clubs. I have Rex with legs and I don't belong to the National Rex club, or any Rex affliated lists. But I do show, and I know what people here have.

Nobody said they are a frequent occurrence. But you made it seem as if the color was impossible and no one could even have lilac SF unless it was some kind of mix. It's not impossible that someone would have them. I see chocolate and lilac enough to know they exist and I know who has them. They are not widely distributed, but Silver Fox themselves are not widely distributed either. I know of no one who breeds for lilac actively, who would breed or ask for an unshowable color? If I got one I would cull it, I do not like chocolate or lilac, especially if there is not point to having them. As far as I know, the breeders I know culled blue SF kits for some time, the same way Rex breeders frequently cull self chins.

Did you bother to read my signature? I do raise and show Silver Fox. And with what little competition there is, I have placed. And do I carry blue in my lines.

 

[phillinley]

Rare is not nonexistent. I don't bother with most of those Yahoo or FB groups, I don't shop there or advertise there, so I don't know what they do. You'd be surprised how many people breed and don't have websites, belong to the ARBA or breed clubs. I have Rex with legs and I don't belong to the National Rex club, or any Rex affliated lists. But I do show, and I know what people here have.

Nobody said they are a frequent occurrence. But you made it seem as if the color was impossible and no one could even have lilac SF unless it was some kind of mix.

finding a lilac silver fox is going to be a rarity. You could have a Silver Fox crossed with something else and have a Lilac mutt, but the likelihood of finding a true silver fox with lilac in the coat isn't something that's common right now.

Just because you personally see them a lot does not change the fact that they are not seen very often by the majority of the country.

Those were my two statements regarding the Lilacs. You are mistaken if you believed I was making it seem that they were impossible. Not common. Rare. Those are my words. Those are what I stand by. I repeated it because you were saying they weren't hard to find for you.

 

[skysthelimit]

Rare is not nonexistent. I don't bother with most of those Yahoo or FB groups, I don't shop there or advertise there, so I don't know what they do. You'd be surprised how many people breed and don't have websites, belong to the ARBA or breed clubs. I have Rex with legs and I don't belong to the National Rex club, or any Rex affliated lists. But I do show, and I know what people here have.

Nobody said they are a frequent occurrence. But you made it seem as if the color was impossible and no one could even have lilac SF unless it was some kind of mix.

finding a lilac silver fox is going to be a rarity. You could have a Silver Fox crossed with something else and have a Lilac mutt, but the likelihood of finding a true silver fox with lilac in the coat isn't something that's common right now.

Just because you personally see them a lot does not change the fact that they are not seen very often by the majority of the country.

Those were my two statements regarding the Lilacs. You are incorrect when you believe I was making it seem that they were impossible. Not common. Rare. Those are my words. Those are what I stand by. I repeated it because you were saying they weren't hard to find for you.

Notice I said for me.

I have a list of four breeders I know have produced lilac kits, three got chocolate stock from Meara Collins and the one closest to me got their lilac/carrier stock directly from Meara Collins. No more than a half hour drive for me. So very likely for me. No lilac mutts involved.
Like I said, Silver Fox are rare to begin with. But if you can find a SF, you can find chocolate and lilacs, if you know where to look and who to ask. Since the breed originated in Ohio, there seems to be a pocket of off the grid breeders here, with pedigreed stock.

 

[phillinley]

Notice I said for me.

Yea I did notice. I even repeated that I noticed the second time.