Seal Netherland Dwarf doe? Would you buy it?

[MR_ND]

I ran across a seal Netherland Dwarf doe today. I am interested because she has good color and show parents in her back ground. But I was hoping to get a show quality rabbit, but it doesn't look like it'll happen. What do you think of her? She is $25 with pedigree, I am considering getting her and finding her a nice mate to produce my own show quality babies.

 

[HoppinHalfPints]

Ears are long... she may grow into them. Head is decent, needs to fill out more, eye is good. Due to the way she is set up I can't tell much about body. Since she is a seal, if you get a himi or a REW with a shaded background you should produce mostly Siamese Sables. Maybe on the dark side first gen, but if you continue with breeding to a himi it will even out the color.

 

[MR_ND]

I am hoping she'll grow into them, she is a little over 2 months old.

 

[lonelyfarmgirl]

She wont grow into them.

Here are some questions for you. What is your purpose for getting ND? Do you have any experience with the breed at all? Do you know the breed standard, the body type, how to pose, etc...?
Why do you think getting a show quality ND won't happen? Do you know what show quality is?
Have you been to shows looking?
Are you an ARBA member? Are you a member of your state club? Have you contacted the top breeders in your state, which would be listed in the states club magazine?
Are you a member of the National Netherland Dwarf club? Who are the top show people in your area as listed in the national sweeps standings?

If I wanted show quality ND, no I would not buy this animal.
Reason is this. Why settle for second best? It costs the same amount of money to feed junk as it does to feed the best you can afford with the money you have available.
If you want show quality ND, then join the appropriate clubs, go to shows, meet other ND people, learn about the breed, THEN make an educated decision and purchase what will bring you success.

 

[MR_ND]

What is your purpose for getting ND? I want to do some small scale breeding and I'm in 4-H so I would like to do 4-H with them.
Do you have any experience with the breed at all? No, but I've had rabbits before.
Do you know the breed standard, the body type, how to pose, etc...? Yes, I just like to get second opinions.
Why do you think getting a show quality ND won't happen? Because I can't find any. I found one nice breeder in my area and now she won't respond to me on facebook or through email.
Do you know what show quality is? Yeah.
Have you been to shows looking? Not yet.
Are you an ARBA member? No.
Are you a member of your state club? No, unless you count 4-H.
Have you contacted the top breeders in your state, which would be listed in the states club magazine? I've contacted some top breeders.
Are you a member of the National Netherland Dwarf club? No.
Who are the top show people in your area as listed in the national sweeps standings? ???

 

[HoppinHalfPints]

She wont grow into them.
.

That, I have found, isn't entirely true.

The head will change as the kit grows. My herd buck used to have a tiny head, good shape, which made his ears look LONG. After he hit 2, he bulked up and now looks MUCH better.

So, I would reserve judgment of this animal until she is older. She IS only 8 weeks old, and still growing.

Look at this page:

http://shinobirabbitry.webs.com/rabbitprogression.htm

Do you see how their heads grew into their ears? THAT is what happens.

Look at Shinobi's Hobr. Do you see how he looked at 3 months versus 7 months?

If I wanted show quality ND, no I would not buy this animal.
Reason is this. Why settle for second best? It costs the same amount of money to feed junk as it does to feed the best you can afford with the money you have available.

How do you know this animal is second best? Have you met it in person? Felt it, determined how good its body is? Have you felt the ear to see thickness, looked at muzzle width and depth of shoulder? This IS a picture, after all, so I would rather feel the animal then jump to conclusions.

 

[GetYourGoat]

If I had found that doe around here (where even unshowable ND's go for $120 easy) I would have snapped her up. Her ears do look a little long to me, but even if she didn't grow into them, it can still be worked with, especially if you can't find many ND's in your area (as was also the case with me...had to drive eight hours a couple weeks ago to pick up my two does). I also stuck pics of my possible buys on here just because I'm not super familiar with the look yet, but I already pretty much knew if I was going to buy them or not before doing so -- you have to be happy with her, in the long run it doesn't really matter what the rest of us think besides offering guidance

 

[Prisma]

I'd look for better, being Netherland Dwarfs are VERY competitive. Get the BEST you can afford if you are serious about showing. Yes price is not always an indicator of quality, however most of the time you get what you pay for with them IF you are talking with a breeder that does routinely well on the show table. How many shows does this person go to? General placement? Are they a member of the specialty club? If not that's OK. How long have they been showing, do they have some rabbits of their own line? Do they have pictures of progression of their juniors? Where they referred by some one else? Hands on as said is better than a picture, what looks great in a picture can be down right ugly in person. You can't feel pin bones, rough spine, spiky shoulders, and some times even crooked spines in pictures. I'd be asking for better pictures, at least three (top, side, front) and posed in show pose. Even broods should be able to show pose to a certain extent. You don't want to get any thing that is severely pinched or cow hocked, etc.

 

[MR_ND]

Thank you for the replies everyone. I had wanted to get this doe, but she is 2 1/2 hours away and I couldn't figure out a way to get it, so I am still on the look out. <br /><br /> __________ Mon May 12, 2014 6:03 pm __________ <br /><br /> I want to tell everyone thanks. After thinking and research I found a 4Her that is less than 25 miles away and has pedigreed Polish rabbits. She has a litter now and I am hoping to get 2 does if there are 2. I had wanted ND's, but Polish are a bit rare around here and seem like a calmer breed and since my niece likes to handle my rabbits I have decided to get Polish instead.

 

[lonelyfarmgirl]

I stand corrected on the ears. Interesting link Hoppin'.

I wasnt saying the doe in question is second best. I will clarify. If I was looking at a doe to buy with the intention to show, and that was the picture I was sent to decide upon I would move on. Clearly the person doesnt know what they are doing or they would have sent a posed photo.

The various questions were intended to give the original poster reasoning and direction so they could make an educated decision on their own. If the original poster knew what to look for in a show animal, to put it simply, then they would be able to put their hands on that animal and make an educated decision. I hope the questions and directions for learning what needs to be learned to make a wise choice were helpful.

I've bought one too many rabbits based on someones word or opinion or based on the fact that there are show winner in the pedigree that ended up being disappointments for one reason or another. Still happens, but today after many years of learning and failing, I now know what to ask, what to look for and how to find the best money can buy on the occasion that I am in the market, which isnt too often these days.

 

[skysthelimit]

If I was looking at a doe to buy with the intention to show, and that was the picture I was sent to decide upon I would move on. Clearly the person doesnt know what they are doing or they would have sent a posed photo.

The various questions were intended to give the original poster reasoning and direction so they could make an educated decision on their own. If the original poster knew what to look for in a show animal, to put it simply, then they would be able to put their hands on that animal and make an educated decision. I now know what to ask, what to look for and how to find the best money can buy on the occasion that I am in the market, which isnt too often these days.

Good point. If I was trying to sell a show or brood rabbit, I would pose them properly, no matter what age it is. At 8 weeks old, if the Nethie won't pose right, and you can't tell that much about it as a young bunny, I would not sell it as a show/brood prospect, nor would I buy it as such. I start posing my rabbits at 4 weeks. Most of the time, I can tell you a lot about type at that age.

Competition for those small breeds is fierce, and even with the Polish, always get the best you can. Don't count on breeding up either. I stopped breeding the Hollands, mainly because competition is so fierce, and I bought buns with legs themselves and lots of GCs in the ped from top ranking breeders, but they don't always breed true. So take your time and get what you want, or like me, you may find yourself disposing your entire breeding program later down the line.