Red X Black gold tipped steel = ???

[Schipperkesue]

I have a red buck and a black gold tipped steel doe. The breeder guaranteed red kits and sure enough, out of a litter of 9 kindled yesterday, 6 are dark and 3 are pink. When the sun came up I lifted the pink kits to the light and sure enough, they have a red sheen to the tops of their head.

I am delighted! But now curiosity has the best of me. What is the color genotype of the doe likely to be? Will the dark kits be gold tipped steel?

 

[Dood]

I am delighted! But now curiosity has the best of me. What is the color genotype of the doe likely to be?

She is a GTSteel that is wideband and carries non-extension A_ B_ C_ D_ Ese ww. I am quite surprised this doe carries wideband but it may be too early to tell if the kits have white bellies instead of red :hmm:

Will the dark kits be gold tipped steel?

yes - that is the only option, they will also all carry non-extension and will produce around 50% reds if bred to a red or fawn

 

[Schipperkesue]

Thank you...I will watch and see! I do not know what is in the background of the doe, color-wise, but it may account for your surprise.

 

[Zass]

With steel and non extension together, some of the black may end up being false selfs.

 

[Schipperkesue]

With steel and non extension together, some of the black may end up being false selfs.

What does that mean?

 

[Dood]

They could be such dark Steels that they have no gold at all and look like
"self black" = aa B_ C_ D_ E_ but are actually
Steele = A_ B_ C_ D_ Es_
hence the term "false self"

 

[Schipperkesue]

Aha! And a false self would look black. Would they have any markings belying their true nature? Is there any way this breeding could produce true blacks?

I have more info for the color genotype. The mom of the GT was a REW and the dad has a pedigree with ONLY red in it. Every animal on his pedigree is red. Would that change the genotype any?

 

[Zass]

False blacks may or may not develop ticking at some point in their lives. I've had kits wait until 8 weeks to start looking like steels, and I've had plenty they never did. If the genes that make true aa selfs are present, there will be even more confusion, as true genetic selfs that are carrying steel are almost impossible to sort from false selfs even with test breeding, unless you are lucky enough to have an agouti who is proven not to carry self and who happens to be of the opposite gender..

I keep seeing people on facebook insisting that genetic selfs who carry steel display as lightly ticked animals. I feel that it is a complete myth. Probably stemming from other myths, like the one that claims that false selfs are ONLY created by having two copies of the steel gene. If people "know" their rabbits are not super steels, then they sometimes decide that it must mean they are self, unaware that steel paired with non extension, or harlequin, or possibly full extension can also manifest as an agouti who looks like a self.

I would guess any lightly ticked animals would be genetic agouti with steel mostly covering their markings. A persistent myth like that helps explain how agouti steel genetics manage to hide in self bloodlines for generations...

 

[Schipperkesue]

Well, they are all red and gold tipped steel. Lovely!

 

[Zass]

Well, they are all red and gold tipped steel. Lovely!

Wonderful!