Questions

[Truckinguy]

As I mentioned on another thread, I have to get my truck into the garage by next fall for a restoration project, which means the rabbits have to go outside. My latest idea is a colony setup, preliminary idea is about 6'x12', hoop house style setup like Ann suggested, with rebar, welded wire and a tarp, a buck and two or three does, clay pipe entrances to nesting areas made up of concrete blocks. I was thinking of laying the dimensions out on the ground, digging the entire area out one foot down, laying patio stones or concrete slabs, putting one row of concrete blocks around the outside and fill it back up with dirt, with maybe sod or seed it a while before I put the rabbits in. This would give the rabbits a foot of dirt to dig in to their heart's content but no chance of a dig out.

My questions are:

1) What diseases could they pick up outside that they wouldn't get in the garage in a cage?
2) Would a colony setup like this need cleaning out, ie. raking out the poo?
3) With a few rabbits eating out of the same feeder, would I just free feed them and let them decide how much they want to eat?
4) I plan to have some shady setups like patio slab on concrete blocks for shade and climbing on, would these reduce or eliminate the need for toenail clipping?

I tried to read through all of the colony threads but I"m on dialup and I would be here until doomsday if I read all of them so sorry if these questions have been touched on before.

 

[Anntann]

Diseases...they can pick up various things from the wild animals around. (possible worms depending on the soil) But it's really nothing that should cause major worry. If they're inside the hoop coop it will be like they're inside the garage. except for...

Cleaning....if you don't keep it clean, they can run the risk of easier worms, or even coccidia. with the cement slabs underneath, you may find that there is some urine buildup. Barn lime will sweeten up the soil tho if that happens. Don't overcrowd and you should be fine. You might want to put in litter boxes in the corners. I've found with my guys that they all choose a corner, and except for the "oh I'm eating and don't want to move" poo, they'll go to the corner to poo and pee. short boxes, cut off storage tubs, etc. make excellent litter boxes (or just a cat litter box...works great) and it's easy peasy to clean up. otherwise, a quick rake and shovel and you are done.

Feeding...I free feed in the colony. I always keep hay in for them so they can nibble, and then a big dish of grains (or pellets if you feed pellets). I also throw grass hay in for them so they have something to nibble on that isn't high protein. You will find that it's easiest to transition them to colony raising by giving them hay to eat so they don't wolf down the pellets. Animals that don't "think" are pretty smart about how much to eat. If they only get fed at certain times, and nothing in between, they'll wolf everything down you give them and beg for more because it's the ONLY THING THEY"RE EVER GOING TO GET TO EAT!!!! If they know there is always going to be food...they go into the natural feeding and just graze.

toenail clipping...you're probably right. I know my colony girls, inside the house, but able to dig around on the floor, rarely need toenails clipped. The odd "thumb" nail, and sometimes the backs will get a bit long...but it's nowhere NEAR as often as the caged guys. (waaaahhhh....I now have half a dozen that need to be in separate cages 'cuz they don't get along in colony and I don't have room for more pens)

 

[akane]

Cleaning will depend on how large the pen is and how large the rabbits are but should require some removal of waste.

I found with hay available all the time overeating of pellets or even straight grains is not really a problem. When I first got my herd some of them would inhale every last pellet they could get. My champagne does downed a good 5-10lbs of pellets one night. After a month of having hay available they now leave a little behind in the community feeder which holds probably a pound of pellets and straight grains.

 

[Truckinguy]

Thanks! That gives me something to think about. If I go the colony route I'll start it with buns from new litters so that they will be familiar with it from a young age. The rabbits I have now will likely stay in cages as that is what they have known for three years. Adam and Scarlett have earned a permanent place here and I like the up close and personal aspect of the cages.

I'm looking at getting chickens this spring so I'm going to start looking for hay as it will be for the rabbits and the chickens.

Ann, the cement slabs on the bottom will have a foot of dirt on top of them so I wonder if any urine will have enough dirt to soak into and disperse.

This is all thinking out loud right now. I'm tossing some ideas around in my head and have until next fall to have something set up. Cages, colony, something in between... not sure yet.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Anntann]

You could easily put cages up on legs over the colony pens. A dropping tray underneath is all it takes...or a slopped plastic under every couple leading to a tub.

Looking forward to seeing what you finally come up with

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm following this thread with interest because after seeing Truckinguy's super cage set-ups I am expecting great things, but I don't feel this is a good moment for me to be giving advice. We've been having problems in our colony of late and are still working things out. I'll know more once we've been through the kindling cycles a few more times.

 

[Truckinguy]

Ann, that's an interesting idea. I've put a lot of thought and work into these cages and I don't want to just abandon them. If I can work them into some sort of setup that would be ideal. One issue I have with using cages outside is they will be subjected to more severe temperature changes than inside the garage.

Thanks for the kind words, Maggie. I would still welcome any advice you have because we can still all learn from any negative experiences we go through. I'm rather curious to see what I come up with as I have so many ideas bouncing around in my head right now I can't make head or tail of them all yet. Fortunately there's lots of room up there for them to bounce around in!

I"m starting to lean toward a hoop style setup at the moment although I"m not sure about how to incorporate the cages into it yet.

 

[Anntann]

hoop and cages...I wonder if you could do the cages at one end of the coop, with the colony running under them. As to the temps...yes, they would be subject to the extremes of cold because they aren't protected on the ground. Perhaps Bucks in the cages, does and litters on the ground. hmmm....The does need to see the buck to be familiar with them.

What about cages on shorter legs...maybe 18" or .5meters off the ground? Work stooping that low, but it protects the cages more, and lets the other rabbits nose the caged ones.

Or, perhaps just have your cage setup in the hoop coop. Might be colder, but rabbits seem to be really good at adapting to winter. You would control your kindling schedule like now. Or a combination of the two...section with cages down the center, and a smallish pen for growouts, or a pair of bonded does who can let you get familiar with the colony idea.

 

[Proper2]

You could buy a tent, they dont cost that much
I think Jack on the forum here has a setup like this, then they would be protected from the weather, flies,frozen water, and all that other stuff

 

[MaggieJ]

We are having so many problems in the colony right now. Our buck Jasper is caged because he disrupted Sage's kindling with this urgent need to mate with her. Only one kit survived.

This morning Alice (who we think is close to kindling again) dug out Sage's nest (foolishly built in Alice's tunnel) and left the week-old kit (another lonely only!) exposed. It was still warm and active when David found it and we have moved it and the nest to the second tunnel... but not sure Sage will care for it there. Working on a solution and will post about it... but you can see why I'm not in a position to give advice!

Hopefully our problems will mean that others like you, Truckinguy, don't have to go through all this when you set up your colony.

 

[Shara]

hope everything turns around for you Maggie!

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm sure we'll work it out, Shara. There are bound to be bumps in the road when you are trying something new. Indoor colonies are not well-documented... so we are still feeling our way. One thing I cannot stress too much is to take into account the personalities of the rabbits. If at all possible, start your colony with youngsters (under 12 weeks) who have been raised together. This will minimize the clashes because the pecking order will be fully established before kits are in the picture. We made the mistake of thinking that since the adults were all getting along great before the kits started coming, that they would manage the nesting without problems. Wrong!

 

[Anntann]

I'm sure we'll work it out, Shara. There are bound to be bumps in the road when you are trying something new. Indoor colonies are not well-documented... so we are still feeling our way. One thing I cannot stress too much is to take into account the personalities of the rabbits. If at all possible, start your colony with youngsters (under 12 weeks) who have been raised together. This will minimize the clashes because the pecking order will be fully established before kits are in the picture. We made the mistake of thinking that since the adults were all getting along great before the kits started coming, that they would manage the nesting without problems. Wrong!

I'm sure that's why I've had such an amazing success with the colony. The girls grew up together.

I'm trying one now with 3 does who I put in together as 4month olds. (different litters, 2 different breeds). They did the whole "i'm bigger" thing for a few days, and then settled into a nice arrangement. 1 of the does is pregnant and about to kindle. So far, no problems. She IS the dominant one (by just a little over the black beveren), so I'm hoping for a good outcome.

I did have Mama and her daughter Clone in together with Peter. Worked really well until day 3 after Mama kindled. Then someone freaked out and killed the babies. Leaving Clone in with Peter has worked well, other than he rebred her right after kindling.

After watching the dynamics a while, I'm pretty sure a LOT has to do with space as well as "we grew up together". giving them a second layer (shelves) to run on, something to get away in (upside down tub for instance), enough housing for the kits (couple of tunnels to make into nests), and tons of hay,...really helps.

Oh. The 3 does from my first experiment. For a week they lived in a 4x6 pen, filled with hay. 2 does kindled while in there. (I'd thought they weren't due for another week). They dug a lovely tunnel down into the hay, and kindled inside the warren together.

I have been learning from the colony raising people online, that giving the colony as much space as possible prevents problems. If you consider that in the wild a rabbit likes to have at least a 25foot space from any other rabbit, you can see why "more is better". That said, the cottontails around here are often MUCH closer than that with their litters. (they are ground nesters, not warren builders, btw). Also, I've watched the lead angora doe turn on Chuck (the buck) when he tried to breed her after she kindled. It was....well, if I were Chuck I'd never try it again...let's leave it at that. Then a few weeks later when I put him back in the colony, she was happy to be bred. :shrug:

 

[Truckinguy]

I've been thinking in the last couple of days about building some raised garden areas and using that as a colony for a year, then switching the rabbits onto the next one for a year, then the next one for a year and so on. That way each one gets a fresh layer of poo every three or four years and grows vegetables in the other years. If not using them as colonies, at least suspending the cages over them for the same lengths of time and, while the rabbits are on them, cover them with a movable hoop style setup that can be moved with the rabbits to the next raised garden area. That way I still have breeding control like I have now, the rabbits aren't running around in their own poo and I don't have to catch them when I need to breed or check them. How do you catch a rabbit in a colony without making it into a stressful chase situation?

 

[Shara]

Hey, I was thinking the same thing! Actually, I was going to suggest that, but forgot. Seriously. I thought it sounded like an awesome idea! They could burrow, you get fertilized dirt, and they get rotated (I didn't say anything intitially because I knew you wanted grass in there...)

 

[Brody]

I isolate which ever rabbit I want and focus on it - and catch it

sounds too simple to be true doesn't it? but thats what I do - and so far it has always worked. I have three rabbits who HATE being handled. Usually the rest come if I sit on the ground and offer treats.