Questions...pasteurella, allergies, dust???

[bikegurl]

You may remember my previous posts about my rabbits with what appeared to be Pasteurella. I culled a stotty, sneezy buck, sneezy doe and very young litter, and two abcessed kits. The mother of those abcessed kits and the rest of their siblings are still around. The mother has shown absolutely no sign of sickness (at least to me). All of the kits have runny noses. I hung out with them for about 10 minutes the other day, to see if I could detect any sneezing. One kit may have had a tiny sneeze. I have been watching them closely, and spending time around them, but have only heard one more tiny sneeze. Their noses are just wet. It kind of runs down towards their mouths.
Today I butchered one of the kits. They are 8 weeks old now. The lungs were not healthy, but weren't horrible either. They had some faint pink blotching. It was just barely noticeable as abnormal. Both the mature buck and doe that I had taken care of previously had very obvious red blotches on their lungs. This fryer also had two tiny white spots on the liver, so being on grass must have introduced something unpleasant.
They live in this, which has a solid floor in the upper area, bedded with wood shavings from a woodshop (unknown types) and hay. I just discovered a little mold in some of the hay, and had possibly given them some of the moldy stuff before it was discovered. (I'm not sure, since only part of the bale was moldy).
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So my questions are:
Could the kits have a sensitivity to dust, mold, etc that would be exacerbated by them hanging out up in the top of the tractor where there is little air circulation? Could that cause nose drippage and lung irritation?
If it is Pasteurella, and the doe doesn't show symptoms, could she be carrying and contagious, and just not showing symptoms?
Once the kits are all gone, I'm planning on putting the doe through a stressful situation (bringing her into the house for a day or a few hours) and then watching her to see if symptoms appear. Should I wait 30 days after the stressing before removing her from quarantine?
Is there something else that could be causing the runny noses other than pasteurella or dust?
Thanks!!

 

[Zass]

It wouldn't take a sensitivity to dust, mold, or cedar shavings (if there is any of that) to wreak some havoc on a kit's repository tract. Rabbits in general are just plain sensitive.
and, I think excessive heat and humidity are also really hard on them.

If the snot has always been clear, and it's been going on a while..it suggests irritants or allergies instead of disease

How are the ones I sent up there holding up? Good, bad?
It's been a long time since I've moved stock anywhere except to Smara's, and we've traded rabbits so frequently and for so long that I'm pretty sure both groups share the same resistances, so I don't really know how well they will handle a move to somewhere new. (a bit worried)

 

[Susie570]

Obviously the abscessed kits had something more going on than allergies or dust irritation and I would suspect, that whatever was causing the abscesses in the kits is likely causing some other stuff. I believe I remember reading that pasteurella causes white spots on the lungs. I'm not sure about other internal organs. Moldy hay can wreak all sorts of havoc.

I don't know what is going on, but it sounds as if it may not be safe to keep any of that stock.

 

[bikegurl]

So if the problem is dust, and I remove it from their environment, how long until there is improvement? Ever?

How are the ones I sent up there holding up? Good, bad?
It's been a long time since I've moved stock anywhere except to Smara's, and we've traded rabbits so frequently and for so long that I'm pretty sure both groups share the same resistances, so I don't really know how well they will handle a move to somewhere new. (a bit worried)

They are doing great! They are so much more enthusiastic about the greens I bring them than my other rabbits are. I've been feeding them grass, dandelions, dock, raspberry leaves(Heather), mint(Dovetuft), plantain, strawberry leaves, willow, apple branches. We picked up some BOSS; they were very happy to get that, and switched to Purina, which I'm just starting to transition to.
Dovetuft still seems to have milk...I wasn't sure how much mint I could feed her, so I haven't fed her enough, most likely. She's always trying dig through the bucket we put in there for her to hide in. :lol: Heather is more relaxed, and often hanging out on the box we put in her cage. Now she has a nestbox, but no babies as of yet. Does she usually wait until the last minute to build a nest? She has moved the hay around in the box, and doesn't hang out in it, but no neat 'nest' and no fur yet. My other does wouldn't pull fur until the moment they kindled, so I was just curious about her normal pattern of nesting...
The little buck is so cute! Every time I go over there, or open his pen (He is outside now) he is asking to get petted. He is good at using the litter box now, so the rest of his pen is clean!
Thank you so much!! We are very grateful for the rabbits. :thankyou:

 

[Susie570]

So if the problem is dust, and I remove it from their environment, how long until there is improvement? Ever?

I would think you should see improvement within a day or two.

 

[Zass]

So if the problem is dust, and I remove it from their environment, how long until there is improvement? Ever?

I would think you should see improvement within a day or two.

I agree, if it was dust or mold, improvement should be rapid.

Neither doe should pull hair until right before kindling, and Heather may wait until right after.

Well, does are funny. They like to keep us on our toes.

Dovetuft USUALLY likes to build her nest way ahead of time and then ignore the box until it's time to kindle, and re-build at that point. The digging is probably part of her early nesting behavior.

The fact that she still has milk is a little worrysome.

Check for mastitis. Are her teats swollen hard and hot feeling, inflamed with redness?


If her teats are baggy and soft, that would be good. She's a very heavy milker who doesn't really wean her babies until you separate her from them..

And she's been re-bred when her litter was around 6 weeks for...about the last year.

..What I'm saying is that she might be more stretched out looking than most.

I'd put money on your SF doe not showing any signs of illness when you stress her. For some reason or another, the SF I had/have are very hardy animals.

 

[bikegurl]

The fact that she still has milk is a little worrysome.

Check for mastitis. Are her teats swollen hard and hot feeling, inflamed with redness?

If her teats are baggy and soft, that would be good. She's a very heavy milker who doesn't really wean her babies until you separate her from them..

I checked her teats; they aren't red and don't appear to be swollen or hot, but it is hard to tell what is body heat and what is excess heat. They are somewhat baggy, but with firm lumps where the milk ducts are; it kind of feels like a plugged duct(at least how it felt on me! ) She was pretty jumpy and didn't like me feeling them, but I don't know if that is because they are painful, or if she just doesn't want to be touched there. My other does hated having their bellies touched. I know on humans comfrey poultices are good for plugged ducts/mastitis, but I don't know how that would work on a rabbit! Should I feed her tons of mint and comfrey?

 

[Zass]

Well, yeah. Rabbits typically hate having a human handle their teats.
If she's being very resistant you can flip her up side down to have a good look and feel.
You might want to feel the second doe's teats for comparison, too.

I think if there was inflammation you would definitely be able to tell.

Comfrey is said to increase milk supply, so I wouldn't use it internally in this case.

It's would be OK to use as part of a compress though, and I do believe that cabbage is also good for an external compress?

She can eat lots of mint or sage.

Here is a list of herbs that may cause miscarriages if fed in excess during pregnancy:

http://www.anniesremedy.com/chart.php?prop_ID=96