questions on natural feeding

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I found this very interesting, But i have some concern. No.1...The babies start coming out of the box at 2 weeks old. I see them mibbling on hay. By 3 weeks old.They are eating hay.Any time that i gave mom a treat and if one of the babies snuck a bite without me looking. It dies. So how can you feed all natural diet with the very young ones with mom with out the babies dieing from it.
No.2. Not everyone can have or can get all the grass and know all the weeds to pick. So i wouldnt trust that i know all the plants even getting a book. I would be soooo scared on killing a rabbit and because of food that i give it. I will never forgive myself.
No.3..How much grains to give and in what portion. I was reading no alfalfa . only other grass hay.But if you think about. Rabbits are just like horses. YOu are not suppose to feed them alfalfa either. It is good for milking cows.
These are all concerns i have about natural diet.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I am trying to go the natural feeding route too. All of the pellets I have seen are alfalfa based, usually as the first ingredient. I think that is why they recommend grass hay as opposed to alfalfa. Alfalfa has higher protein levels than other hay, so it is good for pregnant or working horses. As for the kits dying from the greens- I haven't had a problem with that, but they get their grain mix first, then I feed hay and scatter a few leaves of fresh greens around the cage so they can all get a little. I still feed pellets, but the adult bucks and non-producing does eat very little of it. They get 1/3 cup grain mix in the morning and their hay and weeds.

You can buy weed seeds and plant your own so you know what is safe, and they also will eat red and green lettuce and other things from your garden. You can also start slowly by gathering only the weeds you are sure of, and lots of people here will help you identify plants if you post pictures of them. We also have a post on gardening for bunnies here: rabbit-gardening-t6262.html

This is copied from another post I made yesterday:

My grain mix currently is 1 pound each of BOSS, barley, wheat, and beet pulp mixed with 4 pounds of oats.

Breakfast for the does with 7 week kits is:

1 cup grain mix
4 1/2 cups pellets
Bermuda hay
Mixed greens/weeds

Dinner:
4 1/2 cups pellets
More greens/weeds

All of my rabbits get fed the same diet (amount adjusted) per age and condition, but only producing does get pellets at the morning feed. Today everybody got a horse cookie and some alfalfa cubes. They haven't had alfalfa hay in a long time, so they were crazy for the cubes! The weeds are a very small part of their diet since it is so early in the season. I can't wait to bring them mounds of fresh greens! The amount will grow gradually with what I can harvest here, so by the time the gardens are really producing they will be ready for it. We have some lush patches of grass now so they get that occasionally too.

 

[MaggieJ]

I found this very interesting, But i have some concern. No.1...The babies start coming out of the box at 2 weeks old. I see them mibbling on hay. By 3 weeks old.They are eating hay.Any time that i gave mom a treat and if one of the babies snuck a bite without me looking. It dies. So how can you feed all natural diet with the very young ones with mom with out the babies dieing from it.

I don't know why you are losing kits that are snacking on momma's treats. It doesn't happen here. By three weeks they are eating alongside momma and thriving. They are usually fully weaned by four weeks. May I ask what kinds of treats you are feeding that seem to be causing the problem?

No.2. Not everyone can have or can get all the grass and know all the weeds to pick. So i wouldnt trust that i know all the plants even getting a book. I would be soooo scared on killing a rabbit and because of food that i give it. I will never forgive myself.

You must learn what weeds to feed. There are no shortcuts. You likely already know some weeds like dandelion, clover, Queen Anne's lace. Bring in a sample of other weeds and do your homework. The Safe Plants list can be cross-referenced by using a Google search with the Latin names provided. You have a definite advantage since I compiled the list and almost all the plants are common in Southern Ontario.

Natural feeding is not feasible in all circumstances. If you don't have land to gather weeds from, that will make it difficult. Vegetables are not a substitute for greens, in spite of what the house rabbit people would have us believe. Rabbits are herbivores, not vegetarians. The weeds in the Safe Plants list contain many species that have been brought to North America from Europe. This works out very well for us, since the domestic rabbit is descended from the European wild rabbit. This is their natural food... They have been eating it since the last Ice Age.

No.3..How much grains to give and in what portion.

Grain forms only a small part of their diet. I feed about 1/4 cup of whole grain per rabbit (wheat, usually, but oats and barley are also good.) Does nursing kits get a bit more, especially after the kits begin to nibble the grain. Sometimes I add kitchen oatmeal (like Quaker Old Fashioned/Large Flake) for the benefit of the kits. It is a good introduction to grains for the youngsters.

I was reading no alfalfa . only other grass hay.But if you think about. Rabbits are just like horses. YOu are not suppose to feed them alfalfa either. It is good for milking cows.

Sounds to me as though you have been listening to the house rabbit people with their "no alfalfa". House rabbits tend to get fat because they are not being bred. Alfalfa is a rich source of protein and is the base of almost all rabbit pellets. I don't feed pellets; therefore my rabbits can use a fair bit of alfalfa. The hay I feed is an alfalfa/grass mix... about 65-75% alfalfa. My rabbits thrive on it and it forms the base of their winter diet. I feed it free choice. In summer they eat less hay and more greens. In winter that is reversed.

-----

To recap how I feed my rabbits. Hay is the basis of my natural feeding program for rabbits. They need a hay with some grass and some legume such as alfalfa or clover. This is fed free choice all year around, although they consume much less of it when the wild greens are plentiful. From mid-April to the end of October I gather 8-10 gallons of lightly packed weeds, tree brances with leaves and other safe greens for my small rabbitry... Typically I have three does and a buck, plus youngsters. The rabbits also get a small amount of whole grain, usually wheat. Fresh water and a trace mineral salt block are available to them at all times.

Occasionally I make up an enriched supplement of wheat, BOSS, oatmeal and so forth. I heat a spoonful of blackstrap molasses in a couple spoonfuls of water and add a bit of olive or sunflower oil. This is enough to mix into a gallon or more of the grain and seed mix. It must not be wet or it will mould. I use this for does that need a little extra because they are nursing litters or for older fryers that are growing so fast that they benefit from a little extra. In the coldest weather, all the rabbits get this now and again instead of their usual grain mix. They enjoy it and it provides a boost.

Fresh foods for the rabbits in winter provide a special challenge. I dry quantities of wild greens for winter use. Root crops can be useful as a substitute for greens in winter, but should be fed in moderation, especially carrots and beets which have a lot of sugar. I feed cabbage, but not all rabbits seem to be able to handle it... It can cause gas and must be phased in very slowly. I also grow grain grass in plastic washbasins and have been known to pot up some Swiss chard plants at the end of the season to provide fresh foods. You can feed things like the outer leaves of romaine, radish tops, pumpkin or squash etc. if they are available. My rabbits sometimes get leftover baked potato. These things are fed in small quantities over the winter months, as much to provide variety and interest as to add nutrients. I am a great believer in a varied diet.

I hope this is helpful to you. I have no idea why you are losing kits from allowing them to sample momma's food. I have only very rarely lost a kit after its eyes are open and never from a digestive problem. As long as the greens are available to them from the beginning, there have been absolutely no problems resulting from them.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

THanks everyone. That is a good information.. But when you have allot of rabbits i guess this isnt really the best way to go. I am giving allot more hay than i use to. Giveing more greens. When i lost a few kits was when mom had a piece of carrot. Or there was to much sunshine supplement . Which is the same as calf mamama. When you eat to much of it. So now i stopped giving it to mom when she had babies out of the box. Just pellets and hay. Lots of hay. When the babies were wean . Then i started giving her the extra treats now and then. And had to wait till the babies were 10 weeks before i started any carrots ect. There stomach couldnt take it. But i guess if it was just greens it should be ok then,Still a little shakey on that.

 

[MaggieJ]

It was far more likely to be the Sunshine Supplement/Calf Manna that did the damage than the carrots, but carrots are still not a great treat for very young rabbits. If you have a large rabbitry, feeding an all-natural diet would be quite difficult, but as you learn more about the weeds in your area you will be able to supplement with free gathered greens.

The lawn weed, Common Plantain (Plantago major), is a very safe green for young rabbits. In fact it doubles as a remedy for diarrhea.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/cro ... antain.htm

http://www.kingdomplantae.net/commonPlantain.php

 

[skysthelimit]

THanks everyone. That is a good information.. But when you have allot of rabbits i guess this isnt really the best way to go. I am giving allot more hay than i use to. Giveing more greens. When i lost a few kits was when mom had a piece of carrot. Or there was to much sunshine supplement . Which is the same as calf mamama. When you eat to much of it. So now i stopped giving it to mom when she had babies out of the box. Just pellets and hay. Lots of hay. When the babies were wean . Then i started giving her the extra treats now and then. And had to wait till the babies were 10 weeks before i started any carrots ect. There stomach couldnt take it. But i guess if it was just greens it should be ok then,Still a little shakey on that.

I would very much like to go all natural too with the rabbits, but with 20 something rabbits and kits and less than an acre of space, this is going to be complicated. Starting with less pellets, more hay. Not going the supplement route, trying to use foodstuff as supplements. Working on remembering the ACV in every gallon.

 

[SMR]

Currently working on that, I have just a handful this go around that seem to not be doing well (older retirees or almost retirees). I've had no issues with tons of hay (unlimited access), starting out small and expanding to several big handfuls of grass/weeds, twigs, and some grain/pellet mix daily with a sizable mineral lick in each rabbits cage as well. I spend several hrs gathering and working on greens and hay stuffs, not completely off of pellets as that's going to be a while yet but its a good start. The rabbits seem to be in better shape then what they were on just pellets...makes me wonder what else they are putting in them and if the pellets were the root of my no babies issues since I've had more litters the last month's time then in the last 6 months

If my living situation was different, not in a rural area with access to lots of field/forest, I probably wouldn't be able to even try it with the rabbits. But I go to school and take care of rabbits etc. for right now and enjoy it, don't have an actual job again yet since I was released a few weeks ago. Still when I do get another job, I don't for see it being an issue as its helped my health as well...I've actually lost a few lbs gathering stuffs for the fuzz balls and getting some of my flexibility back lol.

 

[skysthelimit]

Currently working on that, I have just a handful this go around that seem to not be doing well (older retirees or almost retirees). I've had no issues with tons of hay (unlimited access), starting out small and expanding to several big handfuls of grass/weeds, twigs, and some grain/pellet mix daily with a sizable mineral lick in each rabbits cage as well. I spend several hrs gathering and working on greens and hay stuffs, not completely off of pellets as that's going to be a while yet but its a good start. The rabbits seem to be in better shape then what they were on just pellets...makes me wonder what else they are putting in them and if the pellets were the root of my no babies issues since I've had more litters the last month's time then in the last 6 months

If my living situation was different, not in a rural area with access to lots of field/forest, I probably wouldn't be able to even try it with the rabbits. But I go to school and take care of rabbits etc. for right now and enjoy it, don't have an actual job again yet since I was released a few weeks ago. Still when I do get another job, I don't for see it being an issue as its helped my health as well...I've actually lost a few lbs gathering stuffs for the fuzz balls and getting some of my flexibility back lol.

I can't wait till the summer when I have the time to grow and gather weedstuff, now just looking for a location where it's safe/legal to forage. Maybe I'll offer weed removal as a PT summer job...

 

[SMR]

Humm that's a great idea! I never thought about that but I'm sure there are tons of people around here that would love to have a garden or flower bed and just don't want to do the dirty work of weeding....

Now...what to charge so as to not look like the crazy weed lady? lol

 

[MaggieJ]

The rabbits seem to be in better shape then what they were on just pellets...makes me wonder what else they are putting in them and if the pellets were the root of my no babies issues since I've had more litters the last month's time then in the last 6 months ...

Lots of Vitamin A in those greens! The rabbits need it for successful breeding.

...its helped my health as well...I've actually lost a few lbs gathering stuffs for the fuzz balls and getting some of my flexibility back lol.

I'd almost be afraid to give up foraging for the rabbits. This year especially I am hoping it will bring its usual health benefits. I was ill for over a month this winter and I am in worse shape than after a normal winter.

 

[AnnClaire]

SMR - what brand and protein % pellets were you feeding? I have seen several others remark about changing feed or moving to even 50% natural feeding increased their breeding success.

 

[SMR]

Purina was what I was feeding that started all the trouble, show/pro/complete bag depending upon what rabbit exactly as I have different breeds at different stages and needs. I had trouble with it a few yrs back, wiped out almost all of my rabbits. I switched to Manna Pro 16% for every one, saw improvement but still wasn't what they used to be so decided to try again on the natural and tailor to individuals as need be. Could not do any harm considering how poorly every one was doing breeding wise still.

 

[AnnClaire]

Yeah, my feed store ran out of the Purina Pro (16%) that I feed back in December and my only choice was the local farm store brand and they didn't like it AT ALL!! The one Satin doe refused to eat it at all and luckily I had a bale of alfalfa that she got by on until the feed store got in more purina. I also had a no-go on breeding for January even though they had been back on the Purina for a week. Now that they have been back on the Purina, both are due Monday (fingers crossed for the EA doe).

 

[hoodat]

I once thought that you have to start the kits out slowly with greens but I soon found out that so long as they are good greens there is no problem. Just make sure there is a variety and not only alfalfa. Now I just let nature take its course. The young won't start off by gobbling large amounts of greens anyway. It's just a nibble here and there at the start but in a week or so they are gobbling everything in sight with no problems. It doesn't take long for the intestinal flora to build up so long as they are in contact with mama. They get them from her, possibly by eating some of her cecal pellets.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I like to make sure the first greens my youngsters eat are the tummy greens, dandelion, plantain, small amounts of pasture grasses. Then I star mixing in things like tips from rose bushes, green leaves, other weeds, rag weed, etc.