Purebred rex x rex without rex coat

[Tiny Buns]

So in a previous thread I mentioned I have a purebred mini rex and bred her to a friend's purebred mini rex buck. Both have rex coat/curly whiskers.

rex-fur-question-t29294.html

It appears that this buck combined with my doe or my friend's doe will throw non-rex coated kits. My kits are 3 1/2 weeks now and decidedly fuzzy--although the sheen and texture of the longer fur is nothing like I've seen in my netherlands or hollands.

So here's the problem, both mini rex are small and typey, good body shape, nice head, nice fur with not alot to improve on. I wanted to keep the pretty little tri buck I got out of the pairing and breed him back to mom in hopes of getting more tris. I could have sold this one buck 16 times because everyone wants a tri.

The question is, will my normal coated tri buck, from mini rex coated purebred parents, produce rex coated or normal coated kits? Or is this a wait and see question?

thanks

 

[MaggieJ]

Can't help with your genetics question, but I'd give it a try. That kit is beautiful! He reminds me of my sweet Marilla (my avatar cat).

No wonder everyone wants a tri!

 

[skysthelimit]

Rex fur is funky. 3 1/2 weeks is way too early to judge. Sometimes kits have longer fur, sometimes they have thinner fur, and sometimes protruding guard hairs. There are so many modifiers to a Rex coat that a simple recessive can't explain how to get a good coat (which is why I advise against cross breeding Rex for more Rex). You may have to wait till 8 weeks at least, or even until Jr molt to tell what you have as far as type. I can say this, that for my lines, kits that have that kind of fur never have the density of the others.

 

[Tiny Buns]

I also ask because I received a nasty message regarding my Facebook pics, that I'm falsely selling mini Rex when it's obvious (my 3 week old kits) are not Rex coated. Rex coat is new to us so I don't know when I'll see what.

 

[skysthelimit]

I also ask because I received a nasty message regarding my Facebook pics, that I'm falsely selling mini Rex when it's obvious (my 3 week old kits) are not Rex coated. Rex coat is new to us so I don't know when I'll see what.

Tell them to bug off. Or ignore them. With enough Rex experience, most breeders see this happen in a litter or two. If it continues, you may want to eliminate it from the line. I cull anything with protruding guard hairs or produces funky coats, because you really can't breed around it, it will catch up with you. I did have a coat I sent someone that contested me, and behold---it changed into a normal Rex coat. However, I still didn't want that in my line, and since I cull all that stuff, I have not had those problems again.

 

[Tiny Buns]

So then these kits with the longish fur could turn more Rex or not, I'll need to wait and see?
And if they do turn to a Rex coat it won't be as dense or plush as it should be?

Just checking to make sure I've got it.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Your two little charlie marked kits look like they have Rex fur, but so do the other two. It looks like it may be just a little longer.

The pic of the kits looks like they were about 2 weeks old at the time- do you have a current photo?

 

[Tiny Buns]

Ran out and took these right now.

 

[Ramjet]

The question is, will my normal coated tri buck, from mini rex coated purebred parents, produce rex coated or normal coated kits? Or is this a wait and see question?

thanks

As was pointed out in that thread and again in your building a pedigree from scratch thread .... there are three genes which can be the cause of rex fur .... which is why your pair produced non-rex coated offspring.

The potential for hidden genetic modifiers would remain for many generations .... Much longer than the 3gens most put on a pedigree. I just don't find it ethical ....

Then you have the issue of 3 separate genes being responsible for the rex fur .... for could be R1 and the other R2 or R3 .... then you don't even produce rex furred offspring.
That's fairly likely ....

Twr answers your question here -

According to Robinson there are three distinct genes (r1, r2, r3) each with its own recessive mutation that can cause a rex coat, in which case this is not impossible. eg r1r1R2R2 x R1R1r2r2 (both rex) would make R1r1R2r2 (normal fur). But I don't know how common the different mutations are.

That R1r1R2r2 would produce both rex and normal furred rabbits .... just like any first generation rex cross as that rabbit has genes that both match and conflict.

 

[Zass]

That is bound to be a bit beyond the understanding of most breeders though, and facebook..We'll it's facebook. :roll:

They will probably throw some rex coated, and some non rexed kits.

If they were mine, I wouldn't even try to sell them as pure bred, since they do not meet breed standards for mini rex, and there is a good chance some of their offspring will not too.
It's the same reason I decided not to off a pedigree with any kits with known DQs, like white marked japs.

 

[Tiny Buns]

If they were mine, I wouldn't even try to sell them as pure bred, since they do not meet breed standards for mini rex, and there is a good chance some of their offspring will not too.

That's fair. It's just a bit frustrating because despite being unpedigreed, the pair very clearly look Rex and have the right coat.

I think I'll stick to Hollands and Netherlands <br /><br /> __________ Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:51 pm __________ <br /><br />

The question is, will my normal coated tri buck, from mini rex coated purebred parents, produce rex coated or normal coated kits? Or is this a wait and see question?

thanks

As was pointed out in that thread and again in your building a pedigree from scratch thread .... there are three genes which can be the cause of rex fur .... which is why your pair produced non-rex coated offspring.

The potential for hidden genetic modifiers would remain for many generations .... Much longer than the 3gens most put on a pedigree. I just don't find it ethical ....

Then you have the issue of 3 separate genes being responsible for the rex fur .... for could be R1 and the other R2 or R3 .... then you don't even produce rex furred offspring.
That's fairly likely ....

Twr answers your question here -

According to Robinson there are three distinct genes (r1, r2, r3) each with its own recessive mutation that can cause a rex coat, in which case this is not impossible. eg r1r1R2R2 x R1R1r2r2 (both rex) would make R1r1R2r2 (normal fur). But I don't know how common the different mutations are.

That R1r1R2r2 would produce both rex and normal furred rabbits .... just like any first generation rex cross as that rabbit has genes that both match and conflict.

Thank you, I have actually read all of that and it seems as though you're a bit annoyed with me for asking again. I'm asking because I thought it was a fair question considering a) I'm new to mini rex b) I've never seen a mini rex kit to recognize coat c) I'm not a genetics master and so I was curious. I thought one of the purposes of the forum was to be allowed to ask questions and then try and get some answers. Had I completely understood it all the first time, I wouldn't really be here...

 

[Ramjet]

Thank you, I have actually read all of that and it seems as though you're a bit annoyed with me for asking again. I'm asking because I thought it was a fair question considering a) I'm new to mini rex b) I've never seen a mini rex kit to recognize coat c) I'm not a genetics master and so I was curious. I thought one of the purposes of the forum was to be allowed to ask questions and then try and get some answers. Had I completely understood it all the first time, I wouldn't really be here...

I'm not annoyed , I just tend to come off that way. I just tried to give you the answer to your question and show why.

Maybe I should post less and lurk more since I tend to rub people the wrong way.

 

[Zass]

Maybe I should post less and lurk more since I tend to rub people the wrong way.

I love your answers! I vote for Ramjet posting more and lurking less.

 

[MaggieJ]

Given that "tone of voice" does not always come through in written material, it's not surprising that occasionally there are misunderstandings. I hope both of you, Tiny Buns and Ramjet, have it sorted out now and know where the other one was coming from.

Ramjet, you have a forthright style and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You have a lot of good information to share and I hope you will continue to do so.

Tiny Buns, it's obvious this was just a misunderstanding. Please feel free to ask for clarification of any question you may have already asked. It's how we learn.

 

[Tiny Buns]

Thank you, I have actually read all of that and it seems as though you're a bit annoyed with me for asking again. I'm asking because I thought it was a fair question considering a) I'm new to mini rex b) I've never seen a mini rex kit to recognize coat c) I'm not a genetics master and so I was curious. I thought one of the purposes of the forum was to be allowed to ask questions and then try and get some answers. Had I completely understood it all the first time, I wouldn't really be here...

I'm not annoyed , I just tend to come off that way. I just tried to give you the answer to your question and show why.

Maybe I should post less and lurk more since I tend to rub people the wrong way.

Nope, definitely post away. It's often hard to determine meaning and nuance through text. All good

 

[alforddm]

The question is, will my normal coated tri buck, from mini rex coated purebred parents, produce rex coated or normal coated kits? Or is this a wait and see question?

thanks

I read through this thread but didn't see where anyone had answered this question directly. The answer is yes he will produce rex coated kits.

Breed him to another mini rex and you should get 50% rex coated kits and 50% non rex coated kits. I'm just guessing but it seems likely that most mini-rex carry one of the mutations (let's pretend it's R1 since there is really no way to know without testing). The second mutation he carries is probably much rarer and probably comes from a line that has been fairly isolated or possibly from a crop out breeding of non-rex coated rabbits. So lets pretend he carries R1 and R2. With a rough punnet square you can see that 50% of the offspring will have two copies of R1 (and be rex coated) and the other 50% will be R1R2 like the sire and have normal fur.
Sire
R1 R2
R1 R1R1 R1R2
R1 R1R1 R1R2



The only case where he wouldn't produce rex coated kits when bred to another mini rex would be in the unlikely situation that the rex he's bred to carries the third mutation and not either of the two he carries.

I hope that helps a bit.