Please tell me what you cull for

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Zinnia

Zinnia

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I cull hard, but maybe not even hard enough. I see another phase of culling needed in my rabbitry and I feel the need for reassurance....

How do you make the decision to cull? What do you not tolerate... what do you allow...
 
It is the end of breeding season here so, I am culling out two breeders, one has had a clef pallet baby in one litter and a small but strong runt in two. her litter size has decreased as well. the second one I am culling because she is not a stellar mother, she stops nursing at 3 weeks..that is to soon. she was a runt so hubby fell for her but her kits take an extra two weeks to get to butcher weight. And she has had a couple of three week old kits just die, no reason that I could find.... So I am growing out one and two from my best moma, great milker great momma good size litters. these three are from two different litters, with different bucks...
Earlier this season I culled a doe because she was always shy but turned mean when bred. And a Buck because he was not heat tolerant and started to go down hill when the temps got above 90 F, And he had persistent ear mites...just could not stay rid of them....
 
Define what you mean by cull; there are different ones.

I stopped selling pets only, so I no longer cull that way. I have a few I'm going to cull from my herd as soon as their litters are up and producing their own, they are good enough to pass on to some one else so they will be sold as brood prospects. I have some young ones that are going to be brood prospects as well. All are being culled from my herd though because they are not as good type wise as the next generation or their siblings.

I look at every thing, down to the way their ears and feet set as well as general dq's for each breed. Some things are more tolerable than others (white spot in blanket pattern broken is OK vs white spot on solid no broken term cull). Weights are important in each breed even though I have smaller ones (LH, MR, HL) and only 1 larger (Standard Rex). Most of my mothers wean at 4-5 weeks; have a few that will nurse forever but not many. I don't like having to depend on a doe for a long time, its some thing I've bred for and am breeding for in future litters. I've had instances were a litter's mom would die, dog attack/other issue, and even at 6 weeks old with extra help and no issues they still didn't thrive after. I will term cull for mothering abilities as well as litter viability (mom's milk doesn't come in until day 3, mom scatters the litter repeatedly for no reason, mom only has 3 kits, looses 2...all term culls for example). Any thing that is pet only or has a severe enough fault/dq that I would not let any one breed for any reason, term cull. If ears are over max length and does not have a stellar head body must be so close to perfect it hurts to be allowed to stay or offer as brood prospect (no chopped hq, no undercut, no box hq, no issues with midsection/shoulders/etc at all), white toe nails from a solid line, VM/VC that are long/gangly in general, do not meet min/max growth expectations for each breed (I expect MR to be a lb at least by 12 weeks, LHs 8oz, HL no more than 1lb to 1.08lbs) and do not have good parts (excellent crown, head shape, shoulders, hq, etc) term cull. HL have given me no kids this year. MR have given me several litters but I've not kept a single kit out of several litters (all terminally culled); I have 1 lone foster broken chocolate I am hoping is worth keeping to replace mom as she is getting up there and starting to decrease in quality and number so it is time. LHs have had 4 litters; 2 all term culls and 1 doing well and 1 just not old enough to evaluate although her litter was cut from 12 to 5 (heat was just too much for all of them and I picked the biggest/liveliest with the best markings and what looked to be the best splits for the manes). So I have high hopes for the LHs in the future compared to others; or maybe I just got really lucky ::shrugs::.

I also try to term cull for viability and general in babies; if they are weak for no reason or end up not weaning well for example. Right now, they do pretty well with whatever I do with them (they do not stress so bad that they bloat, go off feed, or have other issues like I've seen so many others). I want to keep that up. I don't want ones either that wool mats extremely easy or they are even just in general cottony in texture (LHs).

Its been hard, and I've only started doing this this year. Previously what I didn't keep for breeding I sold either as pet or brood/show prospects to others or sent to auction/swaps. I have wanted to many times just wait and keep such and such kit, maybe some one would like for pet...then remind myself of what pet only rabbits have a shot at having done to them, what I've had to deal with on returns, and ends that quickly.
 
Biting. Any type of aggressive behaviour. Any type of actual physical deformity. Illness or injury.
 
I think it has to depend on your goals. Reading what someone else expects (and gets), I can feel discouraged about my rabbits. Or I can read another post and think, "I'd never keep a rabbit that . . . " So for me it is a matter of figuring out how many rabbits we want (and that can be a moving target, but having some idea helps) and then breeding the rabbits that I could expect to give me that many and that seem the best for moving toward my goal of healthy, easy-care meat mutts to feed the family. So we cull for biting, poor mothering, litters with deformed kits, any health issues (haven't had any yet except for one doe that would go off her feed for no apparent reason occasionally--she's going to freezer camp end of the month)
Then we'll keep a couple promising kits from this year's litters to breed next year after our winter break. If they do better than the does we have now and we're getting to have more rabbits than we want, we'll cull the least good of the breeding stock even though they don't have any "culling fault". They might not go to freezer camp but be passed on to someone wanting to start raising rabbits for meat.

We keep 2 goats for milk and cheese but we don't raise our own replacements. We buy from someone with a dairy herd and know we don't get their best does--they'll keep those. But we have been able to get healthy goats with satisfactory milk production and that is good enough. I guess I'm trying to say that we look for good enough rather than perfect in our livestock. (We're not showing--rabbits or goats or anything) So we just keep our goals clearly in mind and work toward them, not expecting perfection, and not keeping anything that will perpetuate what we don't want to keep seeing.
 
My goals are similar to Raineys, and we both feed a pelletless diet as well. I do have some that are based on location and family needs:

1) heat resistance--we have humid, hot weather that stays in the mid-upper 90's for weeks at a time, and my rabbitry is outside in the shade without electricity. Buns who are easily heat stressed won't thrive here.
2) ability to grow and do well on a pelletless diet. Need buns who are able to do well on foraged plants, shrub, tree branches, hay, kitchen scraps and some grain. (this has been an on-going experiment to see if I'm able to do it with available plants and have a self-sustaining system.)
3) disease resistance: they are meat rabbits that we will eat, so I'm not using meds that could stay in their system and be consumed by us.
4) no fuss/no muss: our family has some unique needs that can make my energy output precious. Every living thing that enters our house needs to have a certain level of self-management, because there's often neither time nor energy for me to pamper extensively. Buns that need coaxing, get out of their cage and raise hell, throw diva fits aren't a good fit here. (I figure if there isn't time for me to do it, the buns don't get to either.)
5) productive, but not too productive: around 8 popples is a good amount for our does, what with the type of diet we feed and me being the one who does all the processing. I was initially excited by 10+, then realized they were smaller at birth and mom had to work harder to feed them. On a pellet-based diet, not as big of a deal--I could supplement. Without, it turned into much more work making sure mom was getting adequate protein and babies were growing. That violated goal #4, so having average-sized litters with slower grow-out made sense for here and now.

#2 & #5 may be replaced in the future. If our family balance between o.k. and chaos tips, I'd go back to pellets and try to have bigger litters 3x a year. (Or I'd take a break from rabbits until all was ok again.) I also was having fun occasionally breeding for color variety and cuteness until one batch almost did me in. They were all shades of orange, cute, perky and fluffy, and processing them was even more stressful than normal. I haven't gone over to deliberately breeding "ugly" bunnies (if there is such a thing) but boy I saw the value after that group.
 
I'll clarify that I am totally open to anyone's definition of culling... Whatever makes you decide not to breed or keep a rabbit. And I really like to hear what you choose to do with those culls.

As with many things, our goals change and a new set of ideals surfaces. With my French Angoras, I feel open to reshaping my goals by hearing more from others, learning more and possibly (only possibly) showing them. Starting off, I cared more about wool softness and good mothering skills. I've grown to feel less tolerance for poor health, poor body type and aggression.

Here's what I am compelled to cull for as of late:

Crooked tails that have been in my herd forever, but I never really understood they were a dq (I have never shown rabbits.)
Poor growth
Severity of ringworm if they get it (rescued a stray kitten and was rewarded with ringworm on the farm :x ) and ability to completely recover and gain tolerance or immunity to it
Aggression (They need to let me see the babies!)
Sneezing (never any mucus, but some sneeze when stressed)... so, tolerance to stress
Tolerance to my climate (damp and cool)
Too much guard hair
Small rear (hee-hee... being very pair shaped myself, I'm righteously aggressive about this one ;) )

My herd is full of very sweet rabbits with great wool and mothering skills, too! So, the above is not my majority.

When I cull, I raise them for meat. Since we DO eat meat, I feel this is the most sensible way to cull for us. There are some rabbits that I may sell as woolers, but honestly, I'd rather not. Buyers can be either a wonderful new friendship, or can be more work than it's worth. I think I have decided that I'd like to only sell the best extras I have as breeding or show stock. I'm not there yet, so we eat a lot. I never buy meat - ever.

There are very few I need cull for serious health issues (like the birth defect I found in the toxin-ingesting doe). In that case, I will cull tiny kits that may not make it by dispatching them. These are the only culls that are not grown for meat. I may sell the good kits and their mothers out of those as woolers, though.
 
I would cull for health first but I've seen no health issues in my current rabbits. Since I am working with dwarf rabbits of an unrecognized color most go for pets and I cull for temperament first. Then I cull for major type problems like rabbits that get really huge ears, a lot of my herd has pinched hocks, Netherland's shouldn't go over 2 1/2lbs... I don't cull for little things because again most go for pets. Finally I cull for color because I want rabbits that are only agouti and only chinchilla.

My first round of culling was serious. I got rid of half my rabbits for temperament and one for producing unhealthy litters. After I got 4 litters out of the remaining rabbits to choose from I culled one for birthing problems and chose only 2 does to keep. I'm getting ready to breed for round 3.
 
I am feeling like being very, very picky right now, akane. So, that's inspiring that you culled heavy with success in the first place.

I have 16 huge hutches that can house at least two, if not 4 woolers or alternatively, one doe and her litter.... or a nice buck. I am utilizing those and several more make-shift wire hutches (including some made from dog kennels with added wire bottoms). My goal is to work within the limitations of the 16 large ones that I made and not the others. I'd like to create some limitations for myself! :lol:

Health is first for me, too. The rabbit must really be able to handle our climate. Purchasing stock from other breeders isn't always reliable for me. Rabbits can be perfectly suited to the drier ridge farms, but become fragile in my valley. And, there's no way of anyone knowing that until we try that rabbit out here. So, I guess I'm really breeding for damp-climate hardiness. We have Kune-Kune pigs that do very well. We are looking into Kiko goats, too... Seems like New Zealand breeds are a perfect match here.

I'm stumped when it comes to culling for crooked tails... (no pun intended). So many of mine have either very crooked, or slightly crooked tails. I'm guessing the one or two does that I have with straight tails carry a recessive gene for a lazy tail. Half of my offspring seem to be good and straight, but could carry recessive lazy tail. My nicest buck has a crooked tail... maybe his only flaw. Most of his offspring have crooked tails. So, my goal is to keep the straightest tail offspring from him and breed for a replacement buck that won't keep perpetuating the crooked tails. Since I don't show, this never mattered to me before. Am I being too picky, or are crooked tails something to breed out? Some of my softest, densest wool comes from that line :( .
 
I read somewhere that crooked tail was like...one copy of the gene produced a lazy or slightly bent tail, and two copies produced a truly bent or crooked tail.
Anyone know more, or have alternate theories?

With that theory...
a lazy or slightly curved tail bred to a strait tail would produce 50% lazy tails,
a really bent tail bred to a strait would produce 100% lazies
and two lazy tails bred together would produce 25% truly bent, 50% lazy, and 25% strait
a really bent to a lazy would produce 50% really bent and 50% lazy...
 
Zass":2aqr8xbj said:
I read somewhere that crooked tail was like...one copy of the gene produced a lazy or slightly bent tail, and two copies produced a truly bent or crooked tail.
Anyone know more, or have alternate theories?
Click to expand...

This is what I recall reading somewhere, too. So... many of mine have one copy, I guess. Hmmm. My good buck could easily have two, though.... And no copies would be obvious? Like as in a straight tail is free from any copies? Anyone know?

-- Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:50 pm --


Argh! Well, I can see a few more rabbit dinners in my future....
 

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