Pedigrees?

[ZachsRabbits]

My herd buck is from a 4h leaders and her children's rabbitry. He is a nice buck with good type and decent markings. His pedigree is 90% of one line in West Virginia. So I emailed the woman about getting a doe to pair with him and copy of his pedigree. She replied to my email with this... Zach, the pedigree is a bit confusing as some of the rabbits you listed on your buck's pedigree weren't rabbits from our rabbitry but the 4h leader states that the rabbits came from the other woman's rabbitry but the woman says they did not. Is this pedigree fake and how do I approach the 4h leader about the pedigree?

 

[DBA]

Sounds like she pulled one over on you. From what I have seen and heard, it happens all of the time.

 

[Zass]

I asked the girl who sold me the harlis why the magpie buck had 27 kits to dilute does and didn't throw one single dilute kit, despite having a dilute parent on ped.
She said, "Yeah, the breeder who sold me him also sold us a doe with an inconstant pedigree." :shrug:

She didn't know for sure the buck's ped had any names in the wrong place until I informed her he was missing the dilute gene he should have had.

We just decided to use it as it was, since we had no proof either way. (She had kits out of him to,) In your case, the breeder clearly stated that those were not her rabbits.

Hmm. I wonder if that breeder had ever sold unpedigreed rabbits at some point and someone went ahead and filled in names.. A nasty thing to do, but possible.

 

[ZachsRabbits]

Yeah it gets weirder. :shock: I showed at fair last year and was cooped beside her rabbits and If I remember correctly a black buck whom she was selling with an ear # RK1 who was ''supposed to be my buck's grandfather who was a year old like my buck. I think she bred the buck herself but he was out of the other woman's line. Why is she scamming 4h Kids first of all and why is she falsifying pedigrees? What does she have to hide?

 

[Zass]

She might not be hiding anything intentionally.
Perhaps she just doesn't really understand how rabbit pedigrees work?

 

[ZachsRabbits]

She's been raising Dutch for 17 years and doesn't know how pedigrees work. She must of handwritten a lot of pedigrees in 17 years.

 

[Zass]

You are just going to have to ask her I think, but do be polite, and not accusing.

 

[ottersatin]

There are many out there that refuse to admit that they are,
how do you say: Just a bit unaware?
If one does not keep accurate pedigrees you/they can easily get lost in the shuffle.
All Rabbits of the same color begin to look alike, Dates and ages an easily become
scattered. This will easily screw the printing of the information.
You may want to seek another Breeder to purchase from.
Just a suggestion, we all must do what we feel is best.
As always, JMPO.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Easy Ears]

:shock: Wow.....um, are you sure she's been raising rabbits for 17 years??

 

[EnglishSpot]

Maybe on paper....

 

[Ramjet]

Yeah it gets weirder. :shock: I showed at fair last year and was cooped beside her rabbits and If I remember correctly a black buck whom she was selling with an ear # RK1 who was ''supposed to be my buck's grandfather who was a year old like my buck. I think she bred the buck herself but he was out of the other woman's line. Why is she scamming 4h Kids first of all and why is she falsifying pedigrees? What does she have to hide?

Its almost impossible to tell if a pedigree is legit just looking at the paper & the rabbit. You are relying upon the breeder to be truthful and to have kept accurate records.

Why is she scamming 4hers and falsifying pedigrees ?! Its easy $$ and she can charge them top dollar in the process.

That piece of paper is only as good as the ethics of that individual .... if they burn you once (and don't make good - accidents do happen) sever the tie and warn others so they don't get taken too.

 

[Zinnia]

Our family was just having a discussion about how floored we are when we discover a person has been lying and apparently feels GOOD about themselves! I used to date a guy that cheated in card games and felt great when he "won". :x You can guess the rest. Cheating in cards was just the beginning. But HOW on earth can people feel OK about being dishonest? Where's the gut feeling that makes you want to hurl if you tell a lie?

 

[TF3]

I think there are more ignorant people than lying ones.
They just don't know.
I mean I am brand spanking new and I am shocked at how little 'breeders' know in the questions they ask or the information they state on FB etc.
The girl who sold me my 'purebred' FG doe swears she is purebred, because the breeder she got her from says she is~ she is a 10 lb. harli marked doe~ and has harassed me all over the place for calling the doe and her kits crosses.
She simply has NO idea what she is doing and in my short time I have run into this type of thing a LOT.
So my guess is that most people are just clueless, but after 17 years? that could be a pattern of fraud.

 

[ottersatin]

The problem is:
In most situations today that involve $Money$ changing hands,
It becomes NOT about honesty in making deals!
It is ALL about the $MONEY$! You must deal only with those people
with whom you have at least a bit of trust that they will deal with others
fairly. This IS NOT always the case! When in doubt, don't walk,
RUN the other way! You will find reputable breeders who will always
treat the customer especially youth fairly.
With many breeders, it is not always about the $Money$.
I've been in rabbits since 1989 and know that nobody is going
to become a millionaire selling Rabbits!
I hope all of your future dealings are favorable.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[ZachsRabbits]

I know the pedigree is fake after talking to 3 of the ''supposed'' breeders. :angry: I honestly don't know what to do. I have 4 dutch trying to get started and it doesn't help me that I don't trust people. Now I have a very nice buck with no pedigree. I don't know how you can lie to somebody's face. The polish breeders are just nicer in my opinion. The only person in this hobby I trust fully is my polish mentor.

 

[FourRingCircus]

I know the pedigree is fake after talking to 3 of the ''supposed'' breeders. :angry: I honestly don't know what to do. I have 4 dutch trying to get started and it doesn't help me that I don't trust people. Now I have a very nice buck with no pedigree. I don't know how you can lie to somebody's face. The polish breeders are just nicer in my opinion. The only person in this hobby I trust fully is my polish mentor.

I'm so sorry! That is beyond frustrating, infuriating, and just flat out wrong. I am guessing she was banking on no one ever coming behind her?

 

[Zinnia]

I'm furious for you! I'd cautiously and tactfully confront her. Yes, I would. Dishonesty is not OK.

 

[FourRingCircus]

Maybe play dumb? Something like "Excuse me ma'am, but could you double check your records that I have the correct pedigree for the rabbits you sold me? I tried contacting the previous rabbitries listed to find out more information and things just aren't adding up for the one I have."

Or is that the chicken way out?

 

[owlsfriend]

Maybe play dumb? Something like "Excuse me ma'am, but could you double check your records that I have the correct pedigree for the rabbits you sold me? I tried contacting the previous rabbitries listed to find out more information and things just aren't adding up for the one I have."

Or is that the chicken way out?

I like that suggestion. It lets the 4-H leader "try to fix it"...and may be just as bogus...but if it was actually a mistake, maybe you do get a better piece of paper.

It only takes 4 generations to get a clean pedigree, if you really like this buck. And you don't have to have a pedigree to show. Be honest with anyone you sell your rabbits to. "I believe this is a pure bred rabbit, but when I investigated his paperwork, there were some problems with it, so I am not using that paperwork." You will have to charge accordingly for kits with half a pedigree, etc. I would appreciate that kind of honesty, myself.

In the mean time, find some does with legit paperwork, from reliable breeders.

 

[sunrise]

I agree with owls friend. I would keep the ones you like and start fresh with your own pedigrees. That way you can be honest with your buyers. Same thing happened to me when I was just starting out.