Our new fish... ummm... what are they?

[FourRingCircus]

ODS just bought this whole set up (stand, tank, accessories, fish, etc.) for $40 from our neighbor/tenant. She was telling me the names of the fish, but not sure how accurate they are (not to mention, I have no idea how to spell a couple of them).

Can anyone help me out?

If we get any more in the future I want to be able to tell them what we currently have so that we can get something that would be compatible. I think these two pictures contain all the different types.

Hopefully the pics are good enough. The water is still a little cloudy from the move so they aren't as clear as I had hoped.



<br /><br /> __________ Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:38 pm __________ <br /><br /> This one is a little better and shows two that I think were missing from the other (the orange/red one with a black tail and the third cleaner fish in the rocks).

 

[akane]

Looks like a couple different rasbora. The dark one with the stripes in the first pic is a skirt tetra. Generally schooling fish like to have 5 or more of the same species making it so you can only keep 1, maybe 2 if very small, schooling species to a tank that small. What you've got is what you've got though. They'll still do fine schooling as mixed species. Just not as happy or as neat of schooling effect. The orange with black tail is a female platy. A livebearer. They appreciate company but they are not a schooling fish so it's not as important and if you mess up and get a male they can pop out babies all over the place.

Unfortunately your sucker/cleaner fish are not suitable. Those are chinese algae eaters. They do fine while young but they will get far too big and often turn carnivorous as they near adult size causing them to suck on the other fish instead of the algae. The only fish of that shape that would work in that tank are true siamese algae eaters. They look very similar to the dark version of the chinese algae eaters but slightly different shape and coloring from top of the stripe to under the stripe. Those only get 3" or less and remain peaceful but you will not usually see them in stores and often chinese algae eaters are mislabelled leading to problems like these. I would see if you can get an aquarium store to trade your chinese algae eaters for a small pleco species, some otos, or snails. Otos will require higher quality water conditions than a pleco can survive but plecos will also lead to worse water quality because they are much messier and bigger. Snails are a good inbetween.

 

[FourRingCircus]

It's a 50 or 55 gal tank... I don't think I mentioned that.

Good info though, thank you! I know she's had them for a while, but not sure exactly how long.

So switch out the suckers if at all possible. Any other major changes we for sure need to do?

__________ Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:40 pm __________

Oh, and the lighter colored smaller ones with the orange tails? There are 3 of them... they stick together so I guess a schooling fish? <br /><br /> __________ Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:42 pm __________ <br /><br /> The third sucker is different than the other two long skinny ones. It looks more like a mini cat fish. Might not be an actual sucker fish though, more of a bottom feeder.

I have no idea... this is all new to me :shock:

 

[funnies50]

The top one looks a little bit like a female betta :lol: The other ones do actually really look like rasbora, but their markings are kinda different. :thinking: So idek.

I'm not entirely sure if those are Chinese algae eaters, but if they are I wouldn't put them there. They are vicious at times. Especially if they're hungry.

They're all really pretty though!

 

[Dood]

Yeah, the two "long skinny" ones are oto cats/algae eaters, a normal and an albino, and might eat the others in their sleep or if they get hungry the stubby brown one is a Cory catfish and they do best in groups of 3 or more

The orange with black fins is a platy

 

[akane]

I'm not sure why I thought it was a smaller tank than that. I guess the price (55 gallon tanks are up near $100 these days and were $50 when I started keeping fish 15years ago) and type of fish plus the big decorations threw things off for me. Those are cory cats that the reflection is kind of covering. They are not so much a sucker fish but they do clean the bottom and eat some algae. Most prefer a meaty pellet or disc which you can buy for bottom feeders. Even sinking pellets for crayfish or turtles are often appreciated and can add variety cheaply.

Those do not look like otocinclus but the only pics I can find when searching specifically for the albino ones have different fins and sucker/nose shape than the regular colors which is odd. This is a normal oto http://www.free-pet-wallpapers.com/free ... 730447.jpg and they will remain 2" or under. They may be a little sleeker if not well fed but I've always seen that they had a more defined abdomen if you watch them on the glass than other algae eating species. This is a golden chinese algae eater http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Gyri ... ieri_2.php different color tint pic https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _loach.JPG and they grow much bigger. You can do an image search and look at them from different angles. In a 55g the chinese algae eaters might have space but they might eat everything else. Best to rehome while small and more people are willing to take them. Otos are nearly always peaceful and remain tiny but all sucking fish are at risk of attaching themselves to fish. It's probably a food shortage and happens even more often when no meat based foods reach the bottom of the tank. If you are feeding cory that is not a problem. If there is no algae you can put a paper clip or a few into a slice of cucumber, lettuce, or squash to sink it for the bottom dwellers. Remove what's left before it rots in the tank.

There are many species of rasbora. I am not the most familiar with them. There's some overall info here http://www.fishchannel.com/freshwater-a ... boras.aspx and again you can find pics if you image search for them. I debated if your more streamlined ones with reddish fins might be albino white clouds but lighting throws colors off especially of fins. They are a fast water river schooling fish and tend to school very tightly from evolving to move with the same currents together. If they are white clouds they prefer coldwater so really shouldn't be mixed with tropicals but again you've got what you've got and they aren't going to fall over dead in low to medium tropical temps.

 

[FourRingCircus]

Lots of info! Like anything else new, it's like learning a whole 'nother language! Thank you for helping guide me in the right direction - I had no idea where to start :shock: .

I will definitely see what other algae eating options there are. There are 3 places in town to get fish from. One store doesn't mesh well with our water or something b/c when we tried a tank a few years ago everything died within days, our neighbor had the same experience. The other place was a little better. She was going to Petsmart and had good luck them.

Here's the whole tank. I told ODS to give her a big hug and tell her thank you b/c she gave him a really good deal. She works at Habitat Re-Store and gets most everything from there so I doubt she had a huge overhead cost, and only bought fish when they were on sale. I know she worked hard for a number of hours getting everything cleaned up the best she could before bringing it up here.

As for water temp, she hasn't been using a heater so I know the ones in there can tolerate cooler temps. Not sure how necessary the two aerator pumps are in addition to the double filter the tank already has?



__________ Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:30 am __________

OK, so top priorities?

Get rid of the chinese algae eaters. (ODS will be sad, the orange one is his favorite. Will have to see what other options are that he might like better).

Get more cory cats? WOuld they be sufficient to keep down algae or do I need to get a sucker of some sort? I have been told by multiple people to avoid snails so I didn't even think those were an option. I guess b/c they can get out of control?

Another food option for the lone cory that I do have. I am trying to feed a little extra so that some is sure to fall to the floor for it.

Just dropped a slice of cucumber in. I know she kept the algae on the decorations when she cleaned so that they would still have something to eat.

Anything else that I need to add/take away for sure? My brain is still trying to sort and process all the info, and after a night of very little sleep (thanks to 1 coughing child, 1 crying child, and 2 barking dogs :x ), it's just not happening this morning.

__________ Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:51 am __________

I really like the sounds and looks of the rasboras! I wouldn't mind a whole tank of them!

 

[Dood]

Too much current can exhaust fish but otherwise the oxygen they add improves the ability of bacteria to decompose fish poop

Most tropical fish like water in the 75 to 80 range and colder water is stressful and could lead to fungal or bacterial disease, as does too high or low of water pH and excess ammonia, nitrates and nitrites in the water

Cory cats don't eat algae - a pleco or 2 would be a better choice but they can get BIG and may need to be replaced with smaller ones after a few years

Cory cats come in LOTS of colours including albino so you can get a variety - they will still all school together

You can add quite a few more community fish species like raspbora or tetras as the guideline is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water

Algae is not always a problem in aquariums; if you over feed your fish or if the tank gets any sort of sunlight they almost always will have algae issues. The bottom feeders (ie Cory cats) are good at cleaning up any uneaten food and if the tank is kept away from direct or ambient sunlight the algae growth can be very slow and easily cleaned off with a tooth brush or scrubby

You can get Nerite snails (also come in a variety of colors) as they can only breed in salt water and there is no chance of them getting out of control in your tank, however if you don't have algae they can starve so you must feed them spirula pellets

I don't know how much you know about aquarium water chemistry so this is just to cover all the bases -

chlorine in tap water is toxic to fish and you must de-chlorinate it before adding water

I highly recommend a water testing kit and that you learn about pH and the Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle

 

[FourRingCircus]

We have well water so no chlorine issue there. I did have the pet store test our water years ago and it was on the basic side then, but I know it's changed just based on how I had to switch things up while washing cloth diapers - it seems to depend on rain levels so I guess the water table changes the make up? That was one of the perks of this already set up tank - she uses the same well we do so we knew the water would be OK for them. She kept most of the old water so I didn't have to add a huge amount of new. The temp is settling in at about 78 degrees, so that should be OK I guess. Also, little to no sunlight in the room. Since the kids still do nap/rest time the blinds and curtains usually stay shut to keep their rooms dim during the day (plus the sun sets on that side of the house so it helps keep the temps down as well).

I am sure you already figured out I don't know much about tank chemistry :lol: . I did know that setting it up in front of a window wasn't a good plan from prior experience .

I'll have to check out the other snails. My only experience is with the little black ones - my aunts tank was completely taken over with them!

Kind of excited to check out what the local stores have to offer so I can better the tank atmosphere. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:18 pm __________ <br /><br /> Finally found the name she kept saying for the sucker fish, and they most definitely don't match the picture. Plecostomus. Wonder if they told her wrong? Had them labeled incorrectly?

I am searching the Petsmart website to see if I can label them knowing that's where she got most of them.

According to the site:

The larger, lighter colored fish are Red Blue Tetra.
The darker ones Buenos Aires Tetra
The lone platy is a Red Wag Platy. (Side note, just saw a Mickey Mouse Platy - I used to have a few of those when I was little! I had no idea you could still find them!)
The lone Skirt Tetra.
I see White Clouds so I am guessing you were correct with those as well.
Generically labeled "algae eaters"
Cory Catfish

I think that's all of them.

Ones I like:

White Finned Rosy Tetra (http://www.petsmart.com/live-pet/live-f ... 3Dcategory) - I wonder what they look like in person?

Could definitely add some color with the GLOfish Tetras but at $9 each doubt that's going to happen :shock:

There are some long fin skirt tetra - pretty pretty! http://www.petsmart.com/live-pet/live-f ... 3Dcategory

Nerite Snails look pretty neat! Much neater than the plain old black snails I was thinking of If we're going to have a tank, might as well have fun with it!

http://www.petsmart.com/live-pet/live-f ... 3Dcategory

http://www.petsmart.com/live-pet/live-f ... 3Dcategory

Melini Cory Catfish

So many more to choose from than I realized! Will all tetras get along? And it said the White Clouds are a Danio, there are others with that name as well so could they mix and mingle?

 

[akane]

Cory will eat some plant matter but not a lot of algae. The problem with plecos is while they eat algae they are not so efficient about how much they use and they tend to poop unbelievable amounts. They have a large impact on water quality compared to other fish. Both nerite snails and apple snails will not multiple out of control. Nerites don't breed in tanks and apple snails lay clutches of eggs outside of the water that you can just dispose of or let hatch and trade the baby snails off to the fish stores or other people. There are places online for buying and selling applesnails and you can find snails on ebay.

Water quality crash course. PH is determined by the buffer which is usually calcium carbonate and aeration can raise ph a little. You can measure calcium carbonate with a kh test. The lower it is the lower your ph tends to be and if kh is too low it can make your ph unstable. Rainwater has pretty much no calcium carbonate. The problem is as fish waste breaks down it acidifies the water and without enough buffer to counter the acid the ph will drop or swing up and down killing fish. There is also the problem that if your tapwater changes too much between water changes you can cause a ph swing and kill fish. This is why a ph test kit at minimum is a good idea and kh and gh (general hardness which measures mainly calcium and magnesium) can be useful.

The nitrate cycle is very important to understand. Fish waste is broken down by bacteria into ammonia. Ammonia is very toxic and you should never have any in a properly stocked and maintained tank. Another bacteria turns ammonia into nitrites. Nitrites are slightly less toxic but you also should not see any. A final bacteria turns nitrites into nitrates which are very safe. 1ppm of ammonia is really bad. Nitrates are best kept below 20ppm but many only aim for under 40ppm. You lower nitrates by changing out water with 0 nitrate water. You can get an ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test. I suggest at least nitrate so you know how often to change the water and if you are having to do too many water changes either you have added too much fish or there is a hidden spot of fish poop gathering somewhere. If your filter is a marineland it might have brown wheels on it. These are for growing more bacteria than can survive on the surfaces in the tank.

Do not use water test strips. Sure they are cheap and easy but they are wildly inaccurate. All they are good for is basically a positive or negative test. The actual values are always wrong. There should be individual liquid tests and master kits with most of the basic tests in one starter package.

 

[FourRingCircus]

Something like this? http://www.petco.com/product/103685/API ... iption-tab

 

[Dood]

Most community species that will stay a similar size - some tetras can be as big as your hand and would swallow yours whole

Guppies and danios (careful as some get big as well) should get along well with your current fish

Platys, sword tails and mollies are bit more aggressive so I would not add any of those unless you put in a lot more plants to offer hiding spots for the more docile species you currently have

As Akane stated, it is the good bacteria that turn fish wastes (ammonia and poop) into less harmful chemicals but nitrates are the end product and only an EXTREAMLY well planted tank can absorb this waste product so you must change part of the water each month to avoid stressing your fish with high levels of nitrate

Also don't ever use soap or overly hot or cold water when cleaning your filter as you don't want to kill off too many of the good bacteria that eat ammonia and nitrites - doing so could cause a spike in these toxins and a fish die off

 

[FourRingCircus]

Most community species that will stay a similar size - some tetras can be as big as your hand and would swallow yours whole

Guppies and danios (careful as some get big as well) should get along well with your current fish

Platys, sword tails and mollies are bit more aggressive so I would not add any of those unless you put in a lot more plants to offer hiding spots for the more docile species you currently have

Good to know about thee more aggressive ones - there are some pretty ones, but I don't want to stir up issue if I don't have to. I think I'll just stick with docile ones

I am going to go back and research the ones I liked and check out the details on them before making any decisions. I do want to even out the "schools" for them since I am sure that would make them more comfortable overall...

 

[akane]

Just make sure you get a freshwater master kit and you're good. API is usually the cheapest and works fine except I could use 2 more test tubes. I always break those freaking test tubes from the API kits and you only get 4 with the master kit. Do not let them fall on anything remotely hard.

I probably wouldn't do danios. They are fish on speed :lol: They can irritate other fish and occasionally fin nip and they are a pain to get back out of a tank. Plenty of people with planted tanks who started with a few danios spend the next year cursing the things as they wreak havoc and can't be caught. If you like them your skirt tetra would appreciate some company and you can get different colored skirt tetras. They come in white and companies have injected the whites with bright colors. Whether you use color injected fish is a personal choice since some find the practice wrong. There are many small to medium tetras (I like cochu's blues, emperors, black neons, and slightly bigger the congo tetras) and rasboras that would be fine in a little group. Avoid barbs. They are more aggressive than the other schooling fish and known fin nippers. You could potentially put 1 bigger fish like a gourami (kissing gouramis get huge and do not mix gourami without experience). Some bettas get along just fine in a community if you don't have excessive water movement. I have a male with platies in a 40g. Do not mix with gourami. Avoid paradise fish which are in the same group as bettas and gourami. There are less aggressive cichlids like angelfish and rams if they aren't spawning but they are always a slight risk. The cichlid group is notorious for their more aggressive members so research anything you come across.

 

[FourRingCircus]

I found a partial bag of dried mealworms in the basket. She said the fish didn't like them, but she figured I could use them for the chickens. I crumbled one up out of curiosity and it was a semi-vicious fight for any and all small pieces! Even the cory swam its hardest to get to the top for it's share! I wonder if she just dropped them in whole? From what I read it was OK for them to have them. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:49 pm __________ <br /><br />

Just make sure you get a freshwater master kit and you're good. API is usually the cheapest and works fine except I could use 2 more test tubes. I always break those freaking test tubes from the API kits and you only get 4 with the master kit. Do not let them fall on anything remotely hard.

I probably wouldn't do danios. They are fish on speed :lol: They can irritate other fish and occasionally fin nip and they are a pain to get back out of a tank. Plenty of people with planted tanks who started with a few danios spend the next year cursing the things as they wreak havoc and can't be caught. If you like them your skirt tetra would appreciate some company and you can get different colored skirt tetras. They come in white and companies have injected the whites with bright colors. Whether you use color injected fish is a personal choice since some find the practice wrong. There are many small to medium tetras (I like cochu's blues, emperors, black neons, and slightly bigger the congo tetras) and rasboras that would be fine in a little group. Avoid barbs. They are more aggressive than the other schooling fish and known fin nippers. You could potentially put 1 bigger fish like a gourami (kissing gouramis get huge and do not mix gourami without experience). Some bettas get along just fine in a community if you don't have excessive water movement. I have a male with platies in a 40g. Do not mix with gourami. Avoid paradise fish which are in the same group as bettas and gourami. There are less aggressive cichlids like angelfish and rams if they aren't spawning but they are always a slight risk. The cichlid group is notorious for their more aggressive members so research anything you come across.

Given all the info on here and the little I have read elsewhere I think I am going to stick with:

Tetras - definitely 2 more skirt tetras for the loner I have now.

Cory Cats - again, 2 more for my current loner

1 or 2 Nerite snails (is that enough for that size tank? I have no idea what size they will be - seems to be a big range)

Then a couple more platys for the current loner.

I wouldn't mind adding in some rasboras, but I don't want to do too much.

Hopefully with all that we can get the schooling fish more comfortable, ditch the chinese algae eaters to avoid potential issues in the future, and add a little more color. Win win situation I think!

You guys have been awesome with all the information! Thank you thank you thank you!!

 

[Squeaky]

Aquarium Advice is a great forum for info. I researched aquariums before getting our freshwater tank, and then had a crash course on saltwater aquariums when we rescued our 55 gallon tank.

 

[Miss M]

You've got great ID and maintenance info here!

I agree on the Chinese algae eaters. Mine started really going after fish. Since you like the gold one, you could get a couple of Golden Dojo loaches. They will help with algae, but they are omnivorous. The Siamese algae eaters are good algae vacuums. I did have one that preferred flakes, though. :? When it died, its companion sat where it had died for a long time, rarely moving, and finally died itself.

Butterfly loaches are really cool. Nicknamed "stingray plecos", they live mostly on the tank walls and decorations and eat a nice amount of algae. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/be ... ichowensis And they look like little stingrays! We had one that would even do a salmon jump into the output stream of the water filter housing, and go inside and clean the filter. No kidding! :lol: It's recommended you get at least 3 for company.

 

[akane]

Butterfly plecos are extreme river fish known as hillstream loaches. They need oxygen rich water and risk flipping out of the tank while climbing filters. They can get along in a peaceful community tank if you run enough aeration and best to keep the filter centered. They are one big suction cup so if you have to move them get a flat card like a credit card, put the net behind and under them, and then very gently slide them off the tank wall. With luck they will flip backward and end up in your net. I plan to do a 30g long river tank again with hillstreams and either white clouds or a rainbow species. Using a variety of different methods you can get one directional flow in the tank like a section of river. Sadly some of my last hillstreams mined the smaller bits from under a mostly round rock and went squish.

(I have as much of an attraction for odd small fish as small mammals)