Options to bred to a chocolate

[squeakylax5]

Hello all!

I appreciate your counsel in the past. I have bought a chocolate V-lop buck and besides another chocolate doe, what are some color options that are possible to bred with him?

Thank you

 

[judymac]

Chocolate is a non-agouti aa, recessive chocolate bb, full color C_, dense color D_, normal extension E_. To know what possible offspring you might get, just think about what you might breed him to. For example, if bred to a castor/chestnut, which is agouti A_, black B_, full color C_, dense color D_, normal extension E_, you'd expect a lot of castors in the litter. But, depending on the recessive traits hiding in the _ dashes, you could discover the castor has a non-agouti a, chocolate b they could pass along, and you might get more chocolates. I bred two castors and ended up with a chocolate self buck, just this way.

 

[squeakylax5]

interesting. thank you! I guess it could help if you have pedigrees I just wasn't sure if breeding to an orange or broken orange, for example would be okay. A breeder told me breeding chocolates to other colors is tricky

 

[Alaska Satin]

interesting. thank you! I guess it could help if you have pedigrees I just wasn't sure if breeding to an orange or broken orange, for example would be okay. A breeder told me breeding chocolates to other colors is tricky

Since the V lop working standard recognizes all four base color selfs, any other self variety (black and its dilute, blue; or chocolate, and its dilute, lilac) would be a fine choice for your self chocolate buck. The self pattern is recessive so if you breed two selfs, all you'll get is more selfs (unless both parents carry hidden himi or REW alleles).

Orange is a non-extension agouti. An orange x chocolate cross is actually a fairly common pairing in some breeds. Especially in V-lops, in which all of the agouti varieties including chocolate agouti aka amber and dilute chocolate agouti aka lynx, plus all of the wideband (which are also genetically agouti) varieties including red, orange, fawn and cream, are recognized, crossing chocolate with an agouti can be perfectly fine. As @judymac points out, many or all of the kits resulting from that cross will probably be agouti, and most or all of those varieties will be showable in V lops.

Breeders of red/orange in many breeds often specifically choose to use chocolates in their breeding program, because the "smut" that is troublesome in black-based red/orange is much less noticeable when it is chocolate rather than black. Crossing chocolate with agouti colors in the breeds that do not recognize chocolate agouti causes problems down the road when chocolate-based agoutis (amber, chocolate chinchilla, chocolate sable, lynx) start showing up. Still, some breeders find that an acceptable price to pay for cleaner-looking oranges/reds.

Breeding a broken orange with your self chocolate just means that about half of the kits will also be broken. That's only a "problem" because the V lop working standard does not recognize brokens (yet).

Here's the Velveteen Lop working standard:
https://arba.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/VelveteenLop.pdf

 

[squeakylax5]

Thank you for explaining this. It helped put some puzzles together in my mind of things I read online. I thought I read you could do an orange with a chocolate. I appreciate your time.

 

[tambayo]

Thank you for explaining this. It helped put some puzzles together in my mind of things I read online. I thought I read you could do an orange with a chocolate. I appreciate your time.

Pretty much the only dangerous to the rabbit choice colors wise is broken X broken, due to risk of homozygote broken (broken gene from both parents) that can result in megacolon (intestinal problem that will be the end of the bunny after a while).
Other color "problems" are due to show rules, so not realy something to worry about if that is not your goal.

 

[squeakylax5]

I appreciate that. We don't plan to show so that's good to know but I do want to avoid the broken to broken.

 

[Alaska Satin]

I appreciate that. We don't plan to show so that's good to know but I do want to avoid the broken to broken.

Velveteen Lops are not yet recognized for show. The ARBA has certain requirements for recognition of a new breed that ensure that rabbits of the new breed are healthy (i.e. do not have breed-specific health problems), will breed true (i.e. can produce offspring that conform to the standard), and are distinct from other ARBA recognized breeds. A new breed has two chances to pass each of three sequential presentations at ARBA National Conventions over a period of several years.

The ARBA issues what's called a Certificate of Development (COD) to a breeder or breeders that commit to breeding rabbits that can pass these examinations. V lops have been under development since the 1990's, but due to one thing or another still have not fully passed the requirements that the ARBA sets for official recognition. They passed their second presentation in 2020, and have what's called a working standard. This means they can be exhibited at ARBA sanctioned shows, but are not eligible to compete for the big awards yet (e.g. Best of Breed, Best in Show). The current V Lop COD is held by Megan Matthys of Plainfield IN. Her contact info is on the ARBA registrar page at https://www.arbadistricts.net/registrars.htm

Since it is a breed under development, all V Lop breeders, whether they eventually intend to show or not, can assist in the development of the breed by working toward the standard. Breeding to the standard also makes your bunnies more attractive to a wider range of potential buyers; this is especially true for a new breed. Keeping pedigrees, even on bunnies intended for pets, is a GREAT idea.

There is a V Lop breed club in Texas, with a number of breeders around and north of Dallas as well as in other states. Some of these contacts might offer good opportunities for learning more about the breed, breeding quality Velveteen Lops, and getting to know other breeders: https://txvelveteenlops.weebly.com/

Here's the American Velveteen Lop Rabbit Club page:
https://avlrc4.wixsite.com/avlrc

On that site, there is a good overview called understanding the standard:
https://avlrc4.wixsite.com/avlrc/understanding-the-standards

Pretty much the only dangerous to the rabbit choice colors wise is broken X broken, due to risk of homozygote broken (broken gene from both parents) that can result in megacolon (intestinal problem that will be the end of the bunny after a while).
Other color "problems" are due to show rules, so not realy something to worry about if that is not your goal.

That's a good point.

The other possible health issue regarding colors is correlated with the vienna gene <v> that produces Blue-Eyed Whites (BEW). Some BEW rabbits - which have two copies of the allele <vv> - are known to suffer from idiopathic epilepsy which results in recurrent seizures.

Like the megacolon issue in charlies, the problem does not appear in all, or even many BEWs. We've bred BEW Polish for quite a long time and have only ever seen one instance that may have been this problem. But the doe also had a head tilt, which made us suspect an E. cuniculi infection instead of idiopathic epilepsy.

 

[squeakylax5]

thank you, very much for all these resources!