Newbie here, sad day

[Angora Acres]

Hi folks!

I am new to bunnies. I was given an English Angora doe a month ago. At the time I had a REW English Angora buck. He managed to hop in her pen and breed her though I didn't think he'd managed at the time.

He died a week later. Unknown causes though I suspect he overheated.

Sophie, the doe, went to the vet a couple of weeks ago who didn't find any kits upon palpitation. Well, vet was wrong! Sophie had one kit Thursday morning.

Well that poor kit died this afternoon. Nothing obvious. Well fed. In a nice nest box with plenty of mama fur. No diarrhea. In fact I saw two micro pellets in the box next to the kit and had witnessed urination.

Darn it. What a way to start out with bunnies.

I've raised angora goats and Dorset/Romney sheep and chickens for 13 years now. I want to lower my numbers of these larger animals and work with the angora rabbits, for fiber and replacement breeders for other fanciers.

I've been through a lot of death with kid goats and lambs and chicks so I'm relatively hardened to the realities of life with breeding animals.

But, being new to bunnies, I'm also on a learning curve here and feeling terrible, wondering if I missed something.

Did I handle it too much? I was picking it up a couple of times a day to check on full tummy. I didn't always wash my hands before. Maybe bacteria?

Did Sophie doe squish something when she stepped on it last night (it screamed)?

Did it get too hot? The inside room with the nest box in it was about 75 degrees today. The kit had crawled to the top of the fur but maybe that wasn't enough cooling.

Did the cat scare it or lick it or touch it? It screamed this morning and I ran it to see the cat looking into the nest box. It wouldn't have screamed unless the cat was touching it somehow I think. I looked the kit all over, up and down and all around and not a mark on it anywhere.

I'm not going to be terribly bummed about this.

I'm wondering though if I should expect a relatively high percentage of mortality if I embark on a breeding program. I see so many posts, not just here, about losing entire litters, and regularly! I'm not sure I could take it.

Thanks everyone.

 

[imajpm]

So sorry you are having a rough start. Hang in there! I'd guess the kit became chilled. Baby bunnies cannot regulate their body temps at that age so singletons have a rough time. They will squeak and cry when they are cold.

 

[houston]

Sorry about your kit. Early deaths always suck :C

I'd have to agree with imajpm here- kits get very cold, very quickly! When there's a bunch of kits, they can snuggle to warm up or disperse to cool down, but when there's only one or two, the kits have a harder time regulating their body temperatures.

I handle my kits anywhere from one to three times a day, and my mom does as well. Overhandling has never been a problem!

Unless the body was obviously broken, I wouldn't say the mother crushing or smothering them would be the cause. Same for the cat- predators don't seem to bother them unless they get eaten or injured. I had a raccoon raid my next boxes, and every rabbit that wasn't bitten/ eaten survived (even one who lost an ear!)

Rabbit babies seem to be real iffy for the first two weeks. I've never had one die (save the few eaten by raccoons) after they open their eyes, but I have a week old litter that one of the smaller ones died already :C But stick with it! We had a bad start too but it's worth it to stick it through C:

 

[Angora Acres]

Thank you for the comments!

I will think about the chilling. It was a very warm day here yesterday, 75-80 degrees. The kit had lived through 2 nights of cooler temperatures.

I have read that the core temperature of a nest box should be 100 degrees or so. The first night, Thursday, I had inserted an insta-read thermometer, kitchen type but does great reading ambient temperature of whatever it's near. I inserted it near the baby to see the temp. It wasn't up to 100 but the baby seemed warm and very snuggly under all the mama fur.

I was reading that things like lamps and heating pads are not recommended as then they can get TOO hot.

So I let it be as it was for the two nights it was alive. It seemed content, no squeaking.

I guess it's one of those things I'll never know. I've had such things happen with lambs and kid goats too. Not as much anymore as my genetics are very good now, but early on, there were some tough times.

I'll probably try again to get a good litter. Maybe in a month or so after I get my nerve again.

Thanks for the feedback, it is much appreciated.

 

[FourRingCircus]

One possible guess for it to be OK for a day or two, and then... not. When kits are chilled they can't digest milk properly. They are usually OK for a day or two after birth without eating (it can take that long for the doe's milk to come in) - maybe it was warm enough to live, but not warm enough to eat/digest?

 

[imajpm]

Human heating pad are definitely too hot so I use a small animal heating pad. It has a hard covering to protect from pee plus a chew guard for the cord. I think it gets to 84 degrees. I slide, and anchor that underneath the nest box for small litters.

 

[FourRingCircus]

And you can even split the box, keeping the heat to one side so they can get away from it to regulate their own temperature as needed.

 

[MaggieJ]

In my newbie days, I once lost a litter to apparent chilling when the temperatures were in the 80s F. and above 70 F. at night. Newborns cannot regulate their body temperature and the smaller the litter, the bigger that problem.

I've seen a lot of new members since we started this forum late in 2009. There are two common scenarios. Some start off fine and start to think they've mastered the learning curve only to be slapped down by Murphy's Law a little later on. Others start with problems, learn to deal with them one at a time, and have actual experience under the belt to deal with issues in the future. NO ONE has a trouble-free rabbit breeding experience over the long haul. So please don't feel discouraged by problems at the beginning.

 

[Angora Acres]

Thank you for the comments and the support. Much appreciated.

I feel worse now, if it was chilled there are so many simple solutions. But it wasn't squeaking?? Maybe not all do when they get cold.

How do you tell how warm it actually is in the nest box?

I am reading that it should be 100 degrees at the core of the nest.

Okay, starting over.

I've found two English Angora bucks local to me, well a couple hours drive. :|

There's also a white doe available a bit closer, still an hour drive.

I'm waiting on the results of a pasteurella antibody test run on Sophie, the doe bunny. If she's a carrier with snuffles, I will just wait on the whole project. I hadn't planned on having hutches or having them outside. I really want to have them inside with me. So I don't really have a set up that would keep her away from other, non-snuffly rabbits.

If anyone wonders, I didn't plan on having Sophie bred because of her snuffles. She was a rescue that I chose to take on even though I had a buck here too. Well nature won and he bred her.

maggiej, I appreciate your perspective. I could tell you tales about when I first started with the goats. Oh my, it is really a wonder that I didn't quit the hobby altogether. It was hard getting going. I am a determined person though and do a lot of research. My mortality rate with the goats is very low now, the last kid death was 4 years ago but early on, there were some hard times.

I believe I can do well at bunnies eventually. I want to have this hobby for a long time going forward as I get older and can't do the hard livestock work, as well for when I downsize home and property.