Newbie breeding ?

[andyva]

New to rabbits, not to animal husbandry, we obtained some rabbits for our family farm, (they are my 6-year old's). We are looking to have meat mutts. We have a White Satin buck, a Black Satin doe, and a younger New Zealand, American Blue cross doe.
Don't know the exact age, but guessing about eight months on the Satins. I have read about looking at the females vent to determine breeding readiness, when they say it should be red or pink, is that without exposing anything, or the part that is exposed, as it would be when sexing?
Thanks, I am starting to catch some grief as a cattleman, sheepman, and poultry farmer that can't get rabbits to breed. After noticing how much the satin doe has grown, I'm certain she just wasn't old enough, when she was "bred" on the way home. (Long story, involving a bouncing cardboard box, a cage with an empty nest box, and a fat, lone bunny 30 days after the trip home) I think she may be getting close now though.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

:welcomewagon:

Welcome to Rabbittalk, Andyva! Glad to have you join us in breeding rabbits.

I have read about looking at the females vent to determine breeding readiness, when they say it should be red or pink, is that without exposing anything, or the part that is exposed, as it would be when sexing?

Exposed- just like sexing.

I'm certain she just wasn't old enough, when she was "bred" on the way home.

A lot of people start breeding at around four months if the does are willing. At eight months you may have trouble getting her to take because of fat in the abdomen, but hopefully not.

 

[andyva]

Someone, at a rabbit show no less, told me that satins are slow to mature and might need to be 8 months and 8 pounds to breed. I tried a couple times since the ride home, and she has shown no interest in cooperating with the buck. I haven't tried in the last month, or so. She has roughly doubled in size since we got her in June, probably from 4 or 5 pounds to 8 to 10 now. She might just be barren, I know it happens, her parts have more color now, so I'm thinking about trying again, and maybe using a friends proven buck if it doesn't work. She has really pale skin in her vent area, the inner parts have gone from almost white, to the slightest shade of pink now. We came up with them almost accidentally, although we had planned to have rabbits, so I guess it's no big deal, but these hopping stock are supposed to be the benchmark for easy breeding. As it turns out, I'm finding, like everything else in life, it's not always as simple as people would have you believe.

 

[3mina]

The colour you want is purple and like everything else, timing is everything

 

[andyva]

Timing as in, somewhere between old enough and before too fat? I did the resting board switcheroo tonight, guess I'll try her in the morning. Every time before she clamps her tail to the cage bottom and tries her best to ignore a very eager, and so far, frustrated buck.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Here are some pics of some does in various stages of readiness:

This first doe is not ready, but is not as pale as they can be. Notice how her vulva is also quite small.



This second doe is ready, and was bred that day. Notice how her vulva is engorged.



This doe is even more ready, but for some reason did not lift for breeding. She broke her leg a couple of months ago and lost some weight, but has gained most of it back and seems in good condition. She is sound on the leg, but maybe she knows something I don't.



Sorry about the grody green glove- I thought the pink one would be distracting when showing the color, so switched to the pale green. I didn't realize how bad it would look in a photograph!

 

[skysthelimit]

Like alien fingers

I think this needs a sticky.

 

[3mina]

Those pics are the timing I was talking about

 

[andyva]

Great pictures, my doe is almost to picture #1, which means she probably isn't ready for whatever reason. Good to be here on a great site, by the way.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think this needs a sticky.

Let me get pics with nice clean gloves first!

I'll write out an official post on it with more pics if MaggieJ thinks it should be a Sticky.

Great pictures, my doe is almost to picture #1, which means she probably isn't ready for whatever reason.

I think doe #1 is either coming in or going out. Maybe I'll pop out and check her in a minute. When you are new to breeding and see that little bit of pink, you think "She must be ready!!!", but sadly, no. :lol: Been there, done that!

Good to be here on a great site, by the way.

Glad you found us! Stick around for a while, and you wont believe the population explosion of rabbits you'll have. We are a happy group of Rabbit Enablers here, and love infecting everyone with Raging Rabbitosis and related disorders. :mrgreen:

 

[MaggieJ]

We need a sticky with pictures like these, MSD. If you prefer to write it up more formally and take new pictures, that is fine, but I see nothing wrong with these.

Andyva, glad to have you with us! :welcome: Don't despair! There a number of tricks you can try to get those rabbits to breed. We need a sticky for that as well.

Maybe, MSD, we should combine those two topics in one thread... all to do with getting the buns to breed like rabbits. The title could be something like "breeding Tips".

 

[skysthelimit]

That would be great Maggie. MSD should wear white gloves for the first pict, pink for the second and purple for the third. I'm all for color coordination.

 

[Piper]

:rotfl:
I am laughing, but with the beautiful pictures that MSD posts, it would be clear. And it would give a good color comparison!

 

[andyva]

My doe looks like picture #1, which is a steady and gradual improvement over the course of the last month. Barely 4 month old NZ/American cross has better color, but she is not quite big enough (early weaned runt from a big litter). I'm going to continue checking every 4 or 5 days, she did her normal tail clamp routine this morning. Cutting back a little on her feed, she is chunky, have had her on a little apple cider vinegar, for awhile. We'll get her bred or butchered one way or the other, high hopes for the NZ/american, that we actually know the birthday on.

 

[3mina]

Andyva, I brought home a trio last July, the senior doe was bred and kindled/raised 7. I didn't get another litter til this spring. I'm going to have the same issue with the FWs I got this July. I got one litter that didn't survive a storm and I won't get another til next spring. Eventually, I'll figure out that I need to buy rabbits earlier in the year to get litters from them

 

[andyva]

Mystery solved, put the "doe" in question in with the 4 month old doe in an outdoor exercise pen. It started trying to mount the smaller rabbit. I examined and found it had a male appendage, altough small and mis-shapen. I feel like a real dummy. I told my six year old the deal, and he got excited over the prospect of rabbit stew. Gotta love farm kids! So on a post-mortem I found small undescended testicles. So I guess we are looking for another doe now. Any guesses on where a fellow could find a NZ Red close to VA?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Mystery solved, put the "doe" in question in with the 4 month old doe in an outdoor exercise pen. It started trying to mount the smaller rabbit. I examined and found it had a male appendage, altough small and mis-shapen. I feel like a real dummy. I told my six year old the deal, and he got excited over the prospect of rabbit stew. Gotta love farm kids! So on a post-mortem I found small undescended testicles. So I guess we are looking for another doe now. Any guesses on where a fellow could find a NZ Red close to VA?

GAH! Dang Sex Change Fairy!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Happens to the best of us, and your buck likely had a split penis, which will often look just like a doe's vent. Not sure about VA breeders....they seem to be pretty sparse out there.

 

[SterlingSatin]

i raise satins; i wouldn't say their much slower maturing than any other breed, but some lines are. i would never breed before 6 months. on the other hand, i have never had trouble getting does bred if i wait until they're a year old or even older. wouldn't try to breed a doe for the first time if she's over 2 years old though. and obviously it depends on the doe. but with my line my does breed easily at a year for the first time. however, if she's 6 months old she's probably ready to breed, and if she's 8 months old then she should definitely be ready