New Zealand Red Buck + Californian Doe =?

[Snickers]

About month ago we had our first "mate date" between our New Zealand Red Buck and our Californian Doe and on Thursday (day 31) afternoon (no babies yet in the morning) we found 9 little babies (of which 3 were dead) in her nesting box. We brought the babies inside because the temps went down to -11 that night. They have been outside since and all 6 are doing well. We check on them once a day to see if they all have full bellies, which they seem to do. Every morning the nest looks like the mom had added new fur to cover them up perfectly.
We are still a bit confused as to what kind of babies we will end up with. We assumed that if we cross a NZ Red Buck with a Calif. Doe we would have some of each as babies. All 9 / 6 babies look exactly identical in color. When looking online at newborns it seemed like purebred Calif. were a lot whiter than purebred NZ Reds.
Our question is: What should they look like when "grown up"? What are the chances that we end up with 6 of one breed? Any feedback on what we can expect would be great!

 

[cmfarm]

They look black. When you mix colors together you often don't get the same color as the parents.

 

[Zass]

Your kits are probably black, some may be chestnut agouti, or steel, which makes sense genetically, as both parents patterns are recessive traits.

What are the chances that we end up with 6 of one breed

Even if they looked like their parents, they would not be of one of their parent's breeds. They would be considered meat mutts.

 

[Dood]

A colour does not make a breed - you would not call a Dobermann Pincher a Dachshund even though they both come in Black and Tan and if you cross breed them you would not get some Dobermann puppies and some Dachshund pups but a whole litter of mixed breeds AKA mutts that would likely all be Black and Tan as well

While it is true that the Californian breed of rabbit only comes in the himilayan colour they are one of the exceptions and most rabbit breeds come in several colours.

I agree with Zass and think your kits will be gold tipped steel, chestnuts and / or blacks.

Depending on the colour genetics of the parents the chance of getting 9 kits of all the same colour can be 100%

 

[katiebear]

They kind of look like some of my mutt babies..they start out black but as they get older and shed out their baby coat it grows back in a lighter black with gold or silver tipping. I believe it is from the chin or steel in their heritage..I also get chestnuts,and an occasional chin ..
Pretty baby, nice and fat..mom is doing a good job..

 

[Zass]

They kind of look like some of my mutt babies..they start out black but as they get older and shed out their baby coat it grows back in a lighter black with gold or silver tipping. I believe it is from the chin or steel in their heritage..I also get chestnuts,and an occasional chin ..
Pretty baby, nice and fat..mom is doing a good job..

Yep, sounds like a steel. They are just chestnuts or chinchillas with the dark part of the coat extended, so it mostly only shows on the tips.

 

[Rainey]

Your kits are probably black, some may be chestnut agouti, or steel, which makes sense genetically, as both parents patterns are recessive traits.

I meant to post on this earlier but was distracted and then tried to follow JenerationX's thread on color for dummies, but have not attained enlightenment. I think Zass's comment about the parents patterns being recessive would apply to my situation as well as to the OP.
When we started last year with 2 NZW does and a blue SF buck, I knew their offspring would be meat mutts, not either breed (And by then I also knew that whatever we bought them as, they might not even be the breeds we supposed or might be mixed with anything) But I was surprised when the first litters were born that all the kits were black, much darker than either parent. As they grew hair, some were (in appearance, not necessarily as rabbit people designate color) black. Some were what I'd call grey, closer to the buck's color. And some had fur that was a mix of black and grey and browns. The ones we kept developed silvering (or something that looks like that to me) as they grew up.
It doesn't really matter because we're raising them for meat and haven't even tried using the pelts, but I do wonder and find the discussions of color very confusing. So this is definitely not urgent but if anyone has time and inclination I have a couple questions.
This year we're breeding 3 does from the original cross back to the SF buck. Would anyone who understands this all expect the offspring to continue to be the same range of colors as last year?
And what exactly is steel and why is it so awful? Sometimes I thought I had it figured out that it removed the rings of color leaving each hair just one color, and then I thought it made hair of a given color have a tip of another color. Is either of those right?

 

[Zass]

Your kits are probably black, some may be chestnut agouti, or steel, which makes sense genetically, as both parents patterns are recessive traits.

I meant to post on this earlier but was distracted and then tried to follow JenerationX's thread on color for dummies, but have not attained enlightenment. I think Zass's comment about the parents patterns being recessive would apply to my situation as well as to the OP.
When we started last year with 2 NZW does and a blue SF buck, I knew their offspring would be meat mutts, not either breed (And by then I also knew that whatever we bought them as, they might not even be the breeds we supposed or might be mixed with anything) But I was surprised when the first litters were born that all the kits were black, much darker than either parent. As they grew hair, some were (in appearance, not necessarily as rabbit people designate color) black. Some were what I'd call grey, closer to the buck's color. And some had fur that was a mix of black and grey and browns. The ones we kept developed silvering (or something that looks like that to me) as they grew up.
It doesn't really matter because we're raising them for meat and haven't even tried using the pelts, but I do wonder and find the discussions of color very confusing. So this is definitely not urgent but if anyone has time and inclination I have a couple questions.
This year we're breeding 3 does from the original cross back to the SF buck. Would anyone who understands this all expect the offspring to continue to be the same range of colors as last year?
And what exactly is steel and why is it so awful? Sometimes I thought I had it figured out that it removed the rings of color leaving each hair just one color, and then I thought it made hair of a given color have a tip of another color. Is either of those right?

To start, steel is perfectly fine in a mutt program!!!! They can be very beautiful rabbits!

It's mostly unwelcome in a lot of breeding programs because steel can imitate self and it's sometimes impossible to tell a genetic agouti steel apart from a visual self black. Untill it ruins the colors you are trying to get...that is

It's highly variable...Oh...I know I have whole threads on this somewhere...

If you took some of those steel kits and bred them back to the buck, you would get the same range of color+ dilute(blue) variants. Rabbits that look self blue, gold tipped blue steel(probably), and maybe opal if the steel did not come from your SF buck.

 

[JenerationX]

That's Syberchick's genetics thread.... my eyes glaze over thinking about genetics. I just wanna see the pretty colors. LOL

 

[Rainey]

That's Syberchick's genetics thread.... my eyes glaze over thinking about genetics. I just wanna see the pretty colors. LOL

Oooops. Sorry. Thought I remembered who it was but should have checked. Anyway I was pleased when Syberchick started it (even though I don't really need to know about color) because I thought if it was for dummies I'd be able to follow it. But I still find many of the basic terms confusing. Has anyone thought of defining basic color terms in the thread in the welcome section that gives lots of abbreviations and definitions?

 

[Zass]

Zinnia has a steel thread that should be more specifically helpful...Let me find it...

stumped-agouti-or-tan-pattern-kit-from-2-self-parents-t23556.html

 

[JenerationX]

That's Syberchick's genetics thread.... my eyes glaze over thinking about genetics. I just wanna see the pretty colors. LOL

Oooops. Sorry. Thought I remembered who it was but should have checked. Anyway I was pleased when Syberchick started it (even though I don't really need to know about color) because I thought if it was for dummies I'd be able to follow it. But I still find many of the basic terms confusing. Has anyone thought of defining basic color terms in the thread in the welcome section that gives lots of abbreviations and definitions?

That's OK. I've been behind some of the "OMG CUTE... what the hay color is that?".... just didn't want to take credit for what Syberchick has put a ton of good time into. It's a great thread.... until I get too far into it and my eyes glaze over.

 

[Susie570]

That's Syberchick's genetics thread.... my eyes glaze over thinking about genetics. I just wanna see the pretty colors. LOL

Yup, it's my fault. Hi!
Still not finished with the thread either :mrgreen: <br /><br /> -- Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:57 pm -- <br /><br />

Has anyone thought of defining basic color terms in the thread in the welcome section that gives lots of abbreviations and definitions?

That's what I'm trying to do with the thread.
I'm going back and revising the opening post as I learn stuff.