New to Genetics - Chinchilla or Steel?

[Qortni]

Hello, everyone!

My husband and I have been raising meat rabbits for just about a year now, and we're starting to play around with genetics. We have no intention to show, but we'd like to breed for the chinchilla or steel looking pelt. I'm having a difficult time understanding how to determine the difference between a steel and a chinchilla by sight.

We have two California bucks who are brothers - easy enough! - and two Flemmish Giant sisters - but we're not sure what their coat types are called.

Ushi, one of the does, looks like she is chinchilla. She has so far produced mostly California looking kits, some pure black kits, one REW, and two Dutch looking kits - one black and white, the other chinchilla and white. She has thrown no chinchilla kits. (I'm using "chinchilla" because that's what I assume, but the more I look at steel, I wonder if I've been wrong.)

Boots, Ushi's sister, is mostly all black, but has areas of chinchilla looking patches. Boots has so far thrown many different shades of chinchilla, Californias, a few REWs, and one blue. It seems to me that she's carrying some interesting recessive genes to come out with these pretty and interesting varieties of pelt colors.

We liked one of Boots' chinchilla looking boys so much, that we've kept him, and we gave away one of our California adult/breeding bucks. The young buck is named Koala. Koala is extraordinarily soft, and is a dark chinchilla color - but I'm wondering if he's actually a black steel.

Can anyone help me determine the possible genetic codes of my females, and whether or not I'm dealing with chinchilla or steel? Any input is much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Zass]

Look at the belly. It's the easiest way to determine it. A steel will never have a lovely white belly.

 

[Qortni]

Ah ha! Yes, Ushi and Koala have much lighter color bellies (silvery white), but Boots' is black. Thank you, Zass!

 

[Zass]

If it's not too much trouble, could you post belly pics? There is a HUGE variety in steels and I love to see comparison pics displayed! They can look almost chinchilla (or agouti, or opal, or whichever coat is being effected by the steel gene) or they can look almost(or all the way) black, or blue or whichever was the base color.

 

[Qortni]

Of course! And I really appreciate your help. :-D

Here are pictures of Ushi's and Koala's bellies. Ushi's is way more like the rest of her coat, and Koala's is silvery white.

 

[Zass]

Ushi is definitely a steel! FYI, a chinchilla steel is also called a silver tipped steel, and an agouti steel is called a gold tipped steel. (So Ushi is a silver tipped steel)

Koala looks more like a chinchilla, except...are her ears white inside?

 

[Qortni]

Neato!
Thank you for helping me understand the differences.

Koala's ears seem dark inside. Here's another pic:

 

[Zass]

Hmmm, where's Dood? I'd like a second (or third, or 4th) opinion on this one!

I'm leaning towards regular, just darkish, chinchilla, but it can be really hard to tell from pics.

Wait...that fur pic of hers seems to lack ring color...To get the best pics of that it's best to blow into it.

This page shows a giant chinchilla with a really good view of belly and ring color near the bottom. (Notice the ears as well)
http://www.giantchinchillarabbit.com/ph ... yourgc.htm

 

[Qortni]

Yeah, the lack of ring coloring is what's throwing me off, too. I tried the blowing method, but Koala was not having it. I had to fool him into thinking he was being pet, and parting his fur was the best I could do. Maybe a re-do is in order.

 

[Dood]

I just visited your images in the gallery and I think....

Ushi is a chin - Aa B_ cchd_ D_ E_

Boots is a dark silver tipped steel - Aa B_ cchd_ Dd Es_ and could be a light super steel (Aa B_ cchd_ D_ EsEs) but not if she had non-steel kits

Koala is a light silver tipped steel - A_ B_ cchd_ D_ Es_

Those Dutch kits are odd they certainly look Dutch but that would mean your doe AND the Cali buck carried Dutch which is highly unlikely but there they are :mrgreen:

 

[Qortni]

Hi, Dood!

Thanks so much for your response and help! Indeed, Boots has had non-steel kits. She just had her first blue, and there are California looking babies, and some REWs.

I'm new to genetic codes, but I read that the "Vv" genes can cause kits that will look like Dutch rabbits, but are not genetically Dutch, and that the gene responsible for the genetic Dutch is "dudu". Although they could possibly have the Dutch gene, and it wouldn't show up if their genetic code is "Dudu".

I'm just getting a grasp on this stuff, and it's a little confusing, but very interesting!

 

[Dood]

Thanks so much for your response and help! Indeed, Boots has had non-steel kits. She just had her first blue, and there are California looking babies, and some REWs.

Steel is only visual in agouti based rabbits so the himi, REW and self blue could all be steel carriers.

If you could post pics of her chestnut and chinchilla kits we could tell if any are steel or not <br /><br /> __________ Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:33 am __________ <br /><br /> Vienna can mimic Dutch and is incompletely recessive so only one gene is needed BUT most of the time Vienna doesn't show any white (called Vienna carriers) or has much less white with only a spot on the nose, forehead or a foot (called Vienna marked)

If its vienna and you breed two "Dutch" siblings you should get some Blue Eyed Whites (BEW) but if they are Dutch then just more dutch

 

[Qortni]

I don't think that Boots has had any chestnut kits, but in the photo I posted near the top, there's a kit who has a brown tinge to its silvery chinchilla coloring that's the closest to chestnut that she's ever had.

Boots has only had two litters so far. Below is her very first litter, as a couple weeks old (the white kits turned out to look like Californias), and then two of her bunnies from the same litter, but older. I hope this helps!

 

[Dood]

I believe the light grey ones are normal extension chinchillas (A_ B_ cchd_ D_ E_) and not steel so Boots is just a very dark Silver tipped steel (Aa B_ cchd ch D_ Es_)

 

[Qortni]

Thank you, Dood and Zass!

You rock. :up: