Need to make some decisions (breeding/genetics)

[Susie570]

As most of you probably know by now, I'm trying to make some decisions regarding raising mini lops.

I've purchased a very nice young doe (who will be arriving in 2 weeks!!). She's a broken chestnut and should produce some lovely kits, with any luck. I'm also wanting to raise some Harlequin/Tri colored Minis.

I've been considering a harli doe who isn't that great, structurally speaking, but might make pretty babies.

So, I have some questions about strategy. The first litters I raise will be from the buck I have now, who is NOT show quality (or pedigreed). These will be 'pet quality' rabbits.

I eventually want to get a show-quality buck. I'm considering trying to get one imported from the mid-west or west coast, to bring different bloodlines into the area.

One of my big questions is about color.

If I want to produce harli kits in the future, should I just get a nice Harli buck? In other words, should my herd sire be harli? I would guess my chances of getting nice harli kits would be better if I bred a harli buck to a harli doe? Or should I get a more standard color buck and breed him with the broken chestnut and the harli does?

What would be the likely result of breeding my broken opal buck back to his Tri-color daughter? (just thinking about possible pretty babies there, of course).

 

[Zass]

If you breed tri to tri or broken you can get genetic charlies...So it's usually best to breed tri to harli or non-extension agouti(fawn, cream, orange or red)

 

[skysthelimit]

Charlies are only statistically 25% of the litter. I would only get 2-3 out of a litter of 12, which is not bad

 

[Susie570]

If you breed tri to tri or broken you can get genetic charlies...So it's usually best to breed tri to harli or non-extension agouti(fawn, cream, orange or red)

Right, I'm not too concerned about Charlies (had some False Charlies in the last litter). I've heard mixed reports regarding whether having Charlies is a problem or not. It seems it's mostly an issue if you end up breeding a charlie to broken (or charlie), or am I incorrect?

I'm mostly wondering what the thoughts were on the colors I would get.. I guess I would expect a lot of blue, since her dad is blue? That means she should have half genetics for blue and half for the harli gene.

Someone had suggested, a while back, that it would be interesting to breed Sprinkles back to her dad, so I've held onto her until I could make up my mind about it.

 

[skysthelimit]

When you say nice, you mean color pattern or body type?
Harlie breeders will tell you in a heartbeat, the inheritance of the Harlie pattern is random. proper markings on parents doesn't insure proper markings on kits, which is why it's a color not accepted by most breeds. Dang hard to replicate.

opal buck to tri dau? need more info. What kind of tri is she? She should carry blue, but she could carry other things. Probably more Opals, (dad is a harlie carrier or non extension carrier?) Chestnuts, Blue selfs, Fawns, Harlies, Lynx,--

 

[Susie570]

When you say nice, you mean color pattern or body type?

When I talk about the 'nice' pet quality rabbits, I just mean 'cute', pretty colors, maybe lop ears. That's it.

Harlie breeders will tell you in a heartbeat, the inheritance of the Harlie pattern is random. proper markings on parents doesn't insure proper markings on kits, which is why it's a color not accepted by most breeds. Dang hard to replicate.

Hmm... that's interesting. :/ My buck did produce a litter full of harlis and tris when bred to a harli dutch, but the harlis were smutty, not decent harli patterns at all. The tris were pretty though, nice bright colors.

opal buck to tri dau? need more info. What kind of tri is she? She should carry blue, but she could carry other things. Probably more Opals, (dad is a harlie carrier or non extension carrier?

Dad is non-E, this is a picture of Sprinkles

 

[skysthelimit]

You might even turn out some Fawns as well

 

[Susie570]

You might even turn out some Fawns as well

There were some broken fawn in the litter. The harlis were more fawn and smutty black. I guess it's unlikely I would get tri from that crossing. I just don't know.

I'm reading that the harli gene is really difficult to work with and it sounds like I shouldn't get a harli buck because, although he can make harli with the broken chestnut, the harli gene will do odd things to the other colors so none of them would likely to be showable.

Hrmph.

 

[akane]

For pets a harli buck would give you the most interesting colors offspring out of other does. For show harli is difficult to work with as mentioned so you have to decide which direction you want to go. People may not want your harli crosses that may be carrying harli or nonextension. It could give them some color problems in future litters so you might want to keep your harli lines somewhat separate from what you are selling for show.

 

[Susie570]

For pets a harli buck would give you the most interesting colors offspring out of other does. For show harli is difficult to work with as mentioned so you have to decide which direction you want to go. People may not want your harli crosses that may be carrying harli or nonextension. It could give them some color problems in future litters so you might want to keep your harli lines somewhat separate from what you are selling for show.

Yeah, to me that means I have to go with a harli doe if I want harli, unless I end up with TWO good bucks, one harli, one standard color (could work toward frosties). I can just see the extra cages lining up.... :x

But for now I'm only planning on one extra buck as I get into it.

I guess I'll pick up the harli doe and see what I can do with her. I should be able to resell her if she's not what I need.

 

[akane]

Just breed the doe to an unrelated buck (preferably agouti colored) and keep a buck offspring to breed back to the doe. It should have either harli or nonextension and your doe will have harli and harli or nonextension to contribute. Half of the resulting litters will be full extension and half will be harli or harli and whatever the nonextension of the base color is. If you test a few buck offspring for a harli specific carrying buck you can eliminate the nonextension rabbits for 50% harli colored.

 

[skysthelimit]

You might even turn out some Fawns as well

There were some broken fawn in the litter. The harlis were more fawn and smutty black. I guess it's unlikely I would get tri from that crossing. I just don't know.

You could with the contributing non extension and tri gene from the doe.