Natural Feeding Issues

[SMR]

Well I'm almost to the point of completely getting rid of pellets...and the same thing has happened again. There are a few in great shape, some not so great and need to gain weight. I'm feeding the below...what to add what to change? Would adding whole wheat be good? I do not want to add corn or any thing with corn in it. No body is in small cages or over crowded. Mineral blocks for every one and unlimited water is also being given to each. Fur is good but they lack weight they had before, this has been a decline over the last 2 weeks body weight wide spread so its not illness or other medical issues (every thing else checks out OK health wise). I figured increase at the start of the decline in grass/hay and stuffs in general would take care of the issue but it has not shown any reverse. Every one's not super thin or at a worry point body wise but I'm not going to wait until then either to nip the problem in the behind either. The grain/feed mix comes to about 16 to 16.5% protein and 5-6% fat and 23-23.5 fiber over all for Hollands, Mini Rex, and Netherland Dwarfs if I did my calculations correct. The Lions, English, Velveteens, and French have been getting a mix slightly more in protein/fat to compensate for their needs. The rabbits finish all the grain/pellets/hay but not always all the grasses. Grass isn't just straight grass, its a mix from the mowed yard (clover, several grass types, dandelions, colts foot, chick weed n such). Yard has been checked to see about bad weeds before just cut and raked to give the rabbits of course.

Should also note that weight decline its not breed/age specific.


Does with kids:
Free choice grass/hay
1-3 cups grain depending upon stage of kids/breed
1-2 cups pellets depending upon stage of kids/breed

Does expecting, dry does, weaned youngsters, and bucks:
Free choice grass/hay
1-4 cups grain depending upon size
1-2 cups pellets depending upon size

Grain Mix:
Beet Pulp w/ Molasses
Alfalfa Pellets
Sunflower Seed
Old Fashion Oats (very small amount)

 

[MaggieJ]

A few thoughts come to mind. These are not in any particular order.

1. My rabbits generally look thinner than most of the rabbits I see in photos from other members. I figure this is because they generally have very little body fat. What you are seeing in your rabbits MAY be normal.

2. Mowed greens are not the best for rabbits. They get mushed up making them unpalatable and they start composting (heating up) almost immerdiately. This may be why the rabbits are not finishing their greens.

3. It sounds like the hay you are feeding is grass hay rather than alfalfa. I see you are feeding alfalfa pellets in your grain mix to compensate. I don't know how this might affect overall protein levels in their diet, but it may be a factor.

4. I don't understand why you would feed does with kits 1-3 cups and bucks and dry does 1-4 cups. Lactating does with kits need more feed, not less, than bucks and resting does.

5. It could have to do with the rabbits themselves. My rabbits have been eating a natural diet for several generations now. It could be that your rabbits need longer to adjust.

6. I feed whole wheat as the grain portion of the rabbits' diet, along with small amounts of sunflower seeds. It might be a good addition to your grain mix.

Hope something in these very random thoughts is helpful to you.

 

[SMR]

Does with kids don't get as much as they never seem to clean it up from the food bowl before the kids make a mess so they end up getting fed 2-3 times a day, depending up on what they eat. Yeah, the alfalfa that was for sale in the area is NOT of any quality I'd feed to any thing alive...so figured that might work as well. I was figuring levels based on the alfa,beets, sunflower, and oat amounts in the mix. If it wasn't for the boney feel, I'd be saying the same thing just loss of extra fat but that's what I'm starting to get so wondered. That could be as well...although I've got some that flat our refuse to eat pellets now unless its the only thing they've got in their cage and then they will. I really like how it effected the coat quality on the rabbits, no longer long sheds or other issues. Haven't had any problems with the kids food/digestive wise it seems, every one's growing and getting bigger. More patience is a must I just worry a lot lol

 

[MaggieJ]

It certainly is a situation that you need to keep an eye on, just in case there is a problem. Maybe you should try giving them some whole wheat.

I'm not surprised a lot of them are beginning to turn their wriggly little noses up at the pellets. Most rabbits, given a chance, really enjoy the natural feeding.

 

[akane]

Animals have been killed by mowed grass. You can get a nonelectric push mower type device with a bag that cuts longer rather than a faster spinning electric blade that pulverizes the grass. We thought of one for the guinea pigs back when we had a big herd and were feeding without pellets. Guinea pigs need a ton of fresh food for their vit c requirements when not getting pellets. Half the fridge was usually bags of guinea pig food. If you have any edible trees they are a great source of food because they are usually huge and so you can cut off large amounts quickly. Now that leaves are on the trees I plan to hit the mulberry tree soon.

 

[SMR]

Is it fumes or some thing on the grass or another reason? Didn't there was any difference between the scythe and the weed eater, and it was quicker so just did that instead. I'll go back to cutting with the scythe, don't want to do any thing to hurt them.

Trees are a good idea, have been giving some branches along but they just don't clean or shred them out that fast.

 

[MaggieJ]

They will be more enthusiastic about the tree branches when they leaf out. They will nibble the bark and buds in winter, but once there are young leaves they are much more eager.

The fumes would not be good for the rabbits, but I think the main issue is the heating up of mowed greens... with a danger of bloat as a result. I've always just hand-picked the weeds or cut them with pruning shears. It really doesn't take very long and that way I know exactly the species and quality they are getting.

 

[Secuono]

Cut grass starts to ferment before the gut can start digesting it. That's why horses can't really have it. They can be put out on freshly mowed grass because they will pull their own and ignore the mowed stuff. If it's mulched up by a mower, it's even more messy and just yuck.
How many rabbits do you need grass for?
Every night I hand pull about a pound or two of fresh grasses and weeds. I just finished some grass pens and moved 2 single rabbits and 1 mom w/kits out, but still have 6 adults and 8 kits to feed in cages. Soon I'll have another 7 kits to be pulling grass for as well. It takes me just 5-10min to wander around and pluck up a nice mix of greens. Relaxing time for me.
Also have 4 guinea pigs in the house to pull about 1/3# of grass for.

I'd leave strips of greens long and not mowed for fresh pulling and feeding. Then what is mowed, turn it daily and once fully dried, feed it as hay or use as nest bedding.

 

[SMR]

Ah...I guess we've just been always lucky then. The horse has always gotten the mowed grass, never had any issues.

Picking by hand is fine, just takes a while. If I'm not interrupted 45-60 mins to do every one. I've got 50 rabbits all together though with out counting kids, so I have a BUNCH of greens to gather lol. I know that's a great deal for a 'natural' diet as well, but like I said before just not happy nor wanting to play the dead bunny lottery with pellets if I can help it.<br /><br />__________ Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:42 pm __________<br /><br />On grasses fermenting, how do you dry to save for winter then?

 

[MaggieJ]

That is a LOT of greens to pick. I forgot your herd was so big, SMR. In your place you might want to use the scythe. It should cut the greens without excessive mashing and bruising that will start the composting action. Feed them as soon as possible after scything.

When making "hay" from cut grasses, air circulation is important. You will have to turn the cuttings to dry thoroughly, thus stopping the composting action. Longer grasses will work better than short clippings.

 

[skysthelimit]

like I said before just not happy nor wanting to play the dead bunny lottery with pellets if I can help it.

I feel you, I've lost a total of 4 rabbits in the past two weeks. Didn't switch brands, just ran out and restocked, even with mixing the new bag with the old. I just can't figure out how to collect greens for 20 rabbits

 

[MaggieJ]

I feed a lot of greens in spring, summer and fall, but during the winter the rabbits eat more alfalfa hay and slightly more grain and less fresh food. Drying abundant greens in summer helps and if you choose things like willow wands with leaves and whole raspberry canes, it need not be so labour intensive as drying extra weeds. Comfrey might be worth growing for winter use. Some people supplement with sprouted grain and peas as part of the "fresh" feed. BUT... Those of you with large herds - more than a dozen adults - are going to have a tough time without abundant alfalfa hay. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it is a lot more difficult.

An alfalfa patch, a weeping willow tree and a substantial planting of comfrey would make your job a lot easier.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I have always loved the look of weeping willow trees, but they are such water hogs that I haven't bought one because our climate is very dry. I guess I have another reason to thank the bunnies, because now I have a valid reason to have willows!

 

[Stormy]

to play the dead bunny lottery with pellets if I can help it.

Hi SMR, There is something I don't know here - what is this mention of dead bunny lottery? Talk about my heart skipping a beat here! I feed my bunnies pellets. They also have daily access to eating greens out of the field pen, and hay, and vegetable scraps. We just had our first two litters, 19 babies! I'm researching supplemental food good for lactating does here on the forum and came across your comment. Please explain! Thanks

 

[trinityoaks]

Hi SMR, There is something I don't know here - what is this mention of dead bunny lottery?

I think SMR is referring to feeding pellets and not knowing which rabbit you're going to lose next.

I would increase the oats (whole grain preferred) to half your mix, add some whole wheat and whole barley (crimped if you can't get whole), and drop the BOSS except in cold weather. I don't have any experience with beet pulp. It's not in the recipe I got when I first started.

If they're getting fresh greens, they won't eat as much of the grain mix. I give mine about 3/4 cup grain per day, and if they're getting a lot of greens, they don't clean that much up.

 

[skysthelimit]

If they're getting fresh greens, they won't eat as much of the grain mix. I give mine about 3/4 cup grain per day, and if they're getting a lot of greens, they don't clean that much up.

My herd sire has all but stopped eating the pellets. The problem now is his coat looks like crap, I assume because of less protein. I don't have much to work with yet, the only grain I can get is oats, and some BOSS. If this is a trend, the show bunnies might have to stay on pellets.

 

[Stormy]

Hi Trinityoaks, exactly my point, why is SMR losing rabbits from feeding pellets? Sorry if i wasn't clear, this is news to me! Are there toxic batches? Why are they dying? thanks!

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

If they're getting fresh greens, they won't eat as much of the grain mix. I give mine about 3/4 cup grain per day, and if they're getting a lot of greens, they don't clean that much up.

My herd sire has all but stopped eating the pellets. The problem now is his coat looks like crap, I assume because of less protein. I don't have much to work with yet, the only grain I can get is oats, and some BOSS. If this is a trend, the show bunnies might have to stay on pellets.

YOu need more than oats and boss. barley ,wheat,oats, boss, and i also use sunshine with old fashion oats in it. I switched form grass hay one day then the next day the alfalfa. along with grass ect.

 

[skysthelimit]

If they're getting fresh greens, they won't eat as much of the grain mix. I give mine about 3/4 cup grain per day, and if they're getting a lot of greens, they don't clean that much up.

My herd sire has all but stopped eating the pellets. The problem now is his coat looks like crap, I assume because of less protein. I don't have much to work with yet, the only grain I can get is oats, and some BOSS. If this is a trend, the show bunnies might have to stay on pellets.

YOu need more than oats and boss. barley ,wheat,oats, boss, and i also use sunshine with old fashion oats in it. I switched form grass hay one day then the next day the alfalfa. along with grass ect.

I cannot get wheat or barley. No one around here sells it, they don't even know what I'm talking about when I ask for it. Not even supposed "feed" stores. I am so far removed from real farming communities that getting BOSS and oats was hard enough. Can't get alfalfa hay either. No one carries it around here either. I take a 45 minute drive just to get the grass hay.
This buck might be one that just doesn't get any fresh greens.<br /><br />__________ Sat May 12, 2012 8:02 pm __________<br /><br />Living in a concrete jungle makes one a slave to the pellet.

 

[trinityoaks]

My herd sire has all but stopped eating the pellets. The problem now is his coat looks like crap, I assume because of less protein.

If he's getting good-quality alfalfa pellets (should be 40% of the mix), he should be getting enough protein.

I don't have much to work with yet, the only grain I can get is oats, and some BOSS.

Bummer! And here I was complaining that the only barley I can get is crimped instead of whole! :shock:

If this is a trend, the show bunnies might have to stay on pellets.

Don't know what to tell you about show rabbits since I don't show. Blown coats don't matter in my rabbitry (except for the mess).