Narrow/Pinched hips?

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Zass

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I brought this silvered chocolate gold tipped steel buckling home a few weeks ago, thinking well...thinking I really missed having steels, or something like that. :oops:

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Yeah, foxy, but I couldn't get his light silvering to show up..
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He' seems like a nice boy for his age is too and probably would have made some pretty kits with my squirrel doe.
But I'm seeing pinched hips right? I'm pretty sure that's what that is. :wall:

I wanted some more opinions on it before deciding to make soup out of him, so what do you guys think?
Sorry the pics are bad (and he wouldn't pose, he's arched back fighting it in most of the pics). Probably more my fault than his..
 
Isn't the way to check by holding them on their back and seeing how the hind feet point? :shrug:

Looks to me like he just needs to fill in over his haunches.
 
It doesn't feel right in my hands and I couldn't get the feet to straighten out when I held him upside down and tickled his tummy.

These mutts should never "need to fill out" like that. They are solely meat rabbits, so I can't wait for them to develop like some do with show types.

They need to be packed with meat, even in the 8-12 week range, otherwise, they are no good.
 
personally, I never had problems with pinched hips in my rabbits and a lot of them have it. They are all going to be food anyway. But if you want to keep the buck and If I remember right to kinda even them out you breed a worse buck to a better doe and then the best buckling kit back to the doe.
 
Celice":19vx4i55 said:
personally, I never had problems with pinched hips in my rabbits and a lot of them have it. They are all going to be food anyway. But if you want to keep the buck and If I remember right to kinda even them out you breed a worse buck to a better doe and then the best buckling kit back to the doe.

The buck is 1/2 my meat herd. So if I used a weak hip buck, I could expect at least 50% of my meat kits to have weak hip genetics...

Breeding to a doe with good hips might hide it if it's a recessive trait, but it would keep cropping up in consecutive generations. Better to breed two rabbits with good hips together if they can be found, and they can.

You wouldn't believe how many nicer animals with GOOD hips I've eaten...
 
what an interesting color combo! sorry i'm no help with the hips thing. maybe if ya already got him you could try him on a doe or two and see how the kits are? assuming you have another buck around though to go to if you nix this guy. I mean if ya already have him and the litters will be meat anyhow may as well see what he throws/
 
Interesting color and he's so cute!!! :D Sorry I can't be any help with the hip thingy, it doesn't look like anything off to me. Maybe cause Caramel has it?! *shriekk!* Are you going to eat/cull/donate him? :roll:
 
ohiogoatgirl":23ejwh1x said:
what an interesting color combo! sorry i'm no help with the hips thing. maybe if ya already got him you could try him on a doe or two and see how the kits are? assuming you have another buck around though to go to if you nix this guy. I mean if ya already have him and the litters will be meat anyhow may as well see what he throws/

Think about it... if the pinched hips were a recessive trait, all of his offspring might look perfect, but be carrying the gene to throw pinched hips.

If it's a dominant trait, 50% of his kits would have pinched hips.

If I did that, I wouldn't be able to share any of my meat stock with other breeders.

Nah, I'd really just not breed bad genetics at all, and remove the temptation.
Sometimes a hard call is still the best one.

And IMO there would be absolutely no advantage to breeding that in.

Are you going to eat/cull/donate him? :roll:

We ate him after I contacted his breeder to ask her opinion.
I don't regret it at all and she didn't mind. He had a short but good life. :yes:
 
Notice how from the top view he forms a "V" toward the tail? And from the rump view his feet are so far under him that they are barely wider than his tail?

He is pinched... and not just a little... a LOT.
 
MamaSheepdog":2m3sg0en said:
Notice how from the top view he forms a "V" toward the tail? And from the rump view his feet are so far under him that they are barely wider than his tail?

He is pinched... and not just a little... a LOT.

Thanks for confirmation MSD! You can REALLY see it when he hops too.

This is actually the first time I've seen one of the SF-line mutts like this.

Anyone know if this is a recessive trait?
I've seen his parents, and they are not pinched like that.
 
MamaSheepdog":zgac697q said:
Notice how from the top view he forms a "V" toward the tail? And from the rump view his feet are so far under him that they are barely wider than his tail?

He is pinched... and not just a little... a LOT.

hmm.. so you really want to look for the round butt then? makes me wonder about some of the past rabbits I had.
 
I'm curious about my rabbits as well... learning something new each day!

Soooo... silly question, but what exactly is the "problem" with pinched hips in rabbits? Other than it's a "fault"... does it lead to further issues with reproductive and digestive processes? Just kind of curious what issues it could lead to...
 
I don't know if it's recessive or not, but I've had a heck of a time breeding it out of my lines, making progress though. I did have one buck that wasn't pinched at all, very good type, and I bred him to several of my non pinched does that have had good kits in the past. Almost every single kit was pinched and extremely cow hocked. Couldn't get those feet in even when you tried to push them in, go figure.
 
He's really pinched as MSD already said. She's right on with the V look from top view, but do you also see the rear view how square and stepped he looks? He'll always lack in loin, he's not going to dress out like one with a good full HQ and loin would and I'd be willing to bet as he ages he'll be bony in his hq and loin in general....not some thing you want in meats. Bummer too, he's such a pretty color. Pinched hq, at least with with the breeds I've had, tends to be a dominating trait...if you've got it you're stuck with it and it is a pain to try to breed out. Most of the time you'll end up with 1 or 2 with good hq and the rest bad when trying to breed it out in my experience.

Problems from pinched or narrow hips go beyond that of just birthing. Pinched/narrow hips usually also mean the rabbit is weak in the lion (mid section), they never will have that firm middle. They also end up being rather flabby in the mid section and often times pointy in the hips. This can be a problem with their movement over all as well as feet. I've noticed ones that are pinched/lacking in hq enough often have tight snippy shoulders as well as thin bone in general. The pinched bones, as far as looking at future offspring, can make it easier for bone issues; splayed legs, cow hocked, crooked feet, crooked legs in general and even in later years of the rabbit that is pinched arthritis and moving around in general issues. Their bones/muscles in general tend to be weaker and allow for more injuries or (or least the ones I've been around) when it comes time to butcher, I've had more trouble properly executing broomstick methods on those with weak/pinched hq than any others (the muscles and bone strength to allow a good quick pull is not there).
 
Makes total sense about birthing issues!

OK, so I flipped one of my 4 weekers over and it's feet are pretty "V" shaped when semi-relaxed on it's back - I assume pinched hips? I tried to check a couple of the others but they wouldn't relax enough to see (wiggly little boogers!). I currently have plenty of does, and am wanting to refine things in the herd (hopefully using what I already have). I look at them all a bit differently every time I learn something new!
 
Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":3n5p6khd said:
Their bones/muscles in general tend to be weaker and allow for more injuries or (or least the ones I've been around) when it comes time to butcher, I've had more trouble properly executing broomstick methods on those with weak/pinched hq than any others (the muscles and bone strength to allow a good quick pull is not there).

Great post, Rebel Rose! You explained all of that much better than I could, and I must admit (since I use the bonk-on-the-head method) that I never knew about the overall weakness in bone and muscle.

heritage":3n5p6khd said:
Soooo... silly question, but what exactly is the "problem" with pinched hips in rabbits? Other than it's a "fault"
ohiogoatgirl":3n5p6khd said:
hmm.. so you really want to look for the round butt then?

The main "problem" is a lack of meat on the carcass. A good (meat) "show rabbit" is "well rounded in the hindquarters and full to the table". What this means is you have a nice wide, deep loin, and thighs that are packed with meat.

A word about the working standards of show animals... they are written to optimize the performance of the animal for the job it is bred to perform. This applies to all animals, not just rabbits.

Look at the great variation we have in dogs. Lets take an extreme example, and contrast the sight hound breeds- which are bred for speed to take down fast moving prey on the run- to the opposite extreme, the Basset Hound.

Sighthounds are lean, have very long legs, and a deep chest with large lung capacity. The Basset, on the other hand, is bred as an older gentlemen's baying hound. They are heavy, low to the ground, and have long ears to "sweep" the scent to their nose. They are very slow moving so the hunter is not forced to run after the dog or be on horseback to keep up.

Meat rabbit standards are written to enhance the qualities of the meat carcass- not to give us a pretty live rabbit. Even if you are just breeding "meat mutts" you should follow one of the written standards for a meat breed.

All of this talk about wide shoulders, good rise, depth of loin, and full hindquarters translates directly to the quality of the cuts of meat you are going to get from that particular animal.

I think we can all agree that the least enjoyable aspect of raising animals for meat is butchering day. The less head you have to butcher to get the most meat, the better. So it is in all of our best interest to breed rabbits that have the most muscle mass rather than breed a huge quantity of rabbits that have weak loins, pinched hindquarters, or narrow shoulders.
 
I just wish I understood it all :oops: . I guess you learn as you go. I can read all day long about what you are "supposed to have", but then go out and look in the hutches, completely clueless to what it actually means. I have never been to a show, or had anyone knowledgeable enough about it walk me though it which is a definite handicap in that area. I would love to know someone IRL that could come over and go through each of my rabbits and tell me what's good, what's bad, keep this one, cull that one, etc.
 
Heritage,

you will learn in time, but like you said, having a "mentor" to help you cull your herd is the absolute best thing.

When I first started in rabbits, it was very hard for me to see what everyone was talking about... which is why I started showing. I started with good quality rabbits and knew that poor choices could rapidly undo all of the hard work of the breeder(s) that came before me.

I cannot urge you strongly enough to attend some shows and watch the judging of the meat breeds, not just your particular breed, but all that share the same body type. Better yet, volunteer to clerk for a judge that is scheduled to do multiple meat breeds. Most judges are very patient with those who are learning to clerk and have a strong desire to learn how to evaluate conformation.

You might also want to find a local rabbit club so that you can connect with other breeders in your area. There will likely be someone that is willing to help you cull through your herd.

It wasn't until I met my rabbit mentor that I really started to understand how to evaluate rabbits, and I am still learning. She and I both have extensive herds so have a LOT of rabbit litters to cull through. The more rabbits you can look at and get your hands on, the better you will get. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:36 am __________ <br /><br /> If you decide to bring some rabbits to show, bring your older juniors and young seniors.

Don't bother bringing your younger junior stock as you will mostly get comments like "This is a promising young rabbit- I can't wait to see him again when he matures a bit." which is pretty useless. ;)

Your older stock will tend to get flabby (lose muscle tone) and also lengthen out, so are not a good choice to bring to a show either.
 

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