My Pasteurella experience-- Azithromycin

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squidpop

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I just thought I would make a quick post about my Pasteurella experience. I bought a new bunny from a well known breeder (in New Zealand) and the bunny arrived and it was making adorable honky squeaky noises whenever it exerted itself- like if it ate or when you picked it up, I didn't think it was sick. 3 days later I noticed it sneezed, like 10 times in a row, and thought it must have snorted up a piece of hay in its nose, checked it out and I didn't see anything so I forgot about it. After that, 3 days later my bunny, now named Daisy, was sneezing again. So I typed "my bunny is sneezing" into google and found all the alarming posts online about Snuffles and Pasteurella, which said basically its not curable, it will spread to all your other rabbits, and they will all die, cull etc... so I was pretty upset. I checked Daisy's nose and there was white snot and fur on inside of paws was caked, so definitely snuffles.
So, I took Daisy to my regular vet who gave me tetracycline, 3 days after the tetracycline Daisy stopped sneezing and seemed to be getting better, so I thought maybe he will be OK— but no, 13 days after the tetracycline Daisy started sneezing again.
So, I went onto a New Zealand rabbit forum and asked the breeders there for the name of a "rabbit savvy" vet- and found a vet that specialized in rabbits. I took Daisy to that Vet and she prescribed Zithromax- Azithromycin. After 4 days on Azithromycin it seemed to clear it up-but continued the treatment for months. I started giving Daisy Azithromycin November 12 and its now January 9 so he has been well for the last 8 weeks and he has been on the Azithromycin the whole time. He comes off the Azithromycin in 3 days. I will post again in a few months and give an update so people can find out if this Azithromycin did the trick.
 
Did the breeder have no health guarantee?
Please do let us know if this treatment works.
 
I don't know if the breeder had a guarantee but when I emailed her and told her about it she did not answer my email. I'm not very good with being assertive so I just decided to let it go, and not hassle the breeder. Since I got my rabbit from her I sometimes check to see if she has more for sale- and she's still breeding and always has a new litter for sale so maybe her other rabbits carry it but are not affected- maybe mine was just unlucky. The other thing I should have notified her about was... Daisy was supposed to be a girl and turned out to be a boy.
 
Ugh, two strikes!
I haven't had sex changers after sales. I check them every two weeks as they grow up. Only had one change, but I caught it before it could of been an issue.

I wonder if you can find others who had bought from her? Maybe even use a new email to ask for references?
 
I hadn't heard of treating with azithromycin. I'm interested to know how it goes!

Generally, you can knock Pasteurella down, but you don't cure it. Stress is often what brings it out in a rabbit, so it could be that the trip caused the Pasteurella to get the upper hand.

Hey... don't be a stranger while you're waiting to see if the treatment will hold! :)
 
Tetracycline is a really weak antibiotic commonly used for fish... it USED to be the go to drug for critters MANY moons ago! I'm not suprised the first vet prescribed it. But he/she is an idiot and had no idea what they were doing.

Second vet is right on the money! He/she has treated much more aggressively and given you the correct treatment length!!! :) Azithromycin is a good drug to try but has shown to be less effective on older animals or chronic cases. You might find symptoms return as soon as you stop... for this reason I prefer vets to give Azithromycin along side Doxycycline or Baytril. As others mentioned though, the lungs are damaged after such an infection and it often returns as soon as the rabbit is stressed out again.

Disclaimer: I'm not a vet... Just what I have experienced/learned rescuing rats and battling respitory issues.
 
squidpop":30zfa7yw said:
I just thought I would make a quick post about my Pasteurella experience. I bought a new bunny from a well known breeder (in New Zealand) and the bunny arrived and it was making adorable honky squeaky noises whenever it exerted itself- like if it ate or when you picked it up, I didn't think it was sick. 3 days later I noticed it sneezed, like 10 times in a row, and thought it must have snorted up a piece of hay in its nose, checked it out and I didn't see anything so I forgot about it. After that, 3 days later my bunny, now named Daisy, was sneezing again. So I typed "my bunny is sneezing" into google and found all the alarming posts online about Snuffles and Pasteurella, which said basically its not curable, it will spread to all your other rabbits, and they will all die, cull etc... so I was pretty upset. I checked Daisy's nose and there was white snot and fur on inside of paws was caked, so definitely snuffles.
So, I took Daisy to my regular vet who gave me tetracycline, 3 days after the tetracycline Daisy stopped sneezing and seemed to be getting better, so I thought maybe he will be OK— but no, 13 days after the tetracycline Daisy started sneezing again.
So, I went onto a New Zealand rabbit forum and asked the breeders there for the name of a "rabbit savvy" vet- and found a vet that specialized in rabbits. I took Daisy to that Vet and she prescribed Zithromax- Azithromycin. After 4 days on Azithromycin it seemed to clear it up-but continued the treatment for months. I started giving Daisy Azithromycin November 12 and its now January 9 so he has been well for the last 8 weeks and he has been on the Azithromycin the whole time. He comes off the Azithromycin in 3 days. I will post again in a few months and give an update so people can find out if this Azithromycin did the trick.

I hope you have kept Daisy quarantined the whole time. Chances are, when she comes off the ABX, her symptoms will return. Maybe not right away, but as soon as she is stressed, ie. transport, kindling, etc. It is basically impossible to eradicate P. multocida from the sinus cavities of an infected rabbit, due to the lack of adequate blood flow to carry the ABX there. I would keep Daisy quarantined for at least a month after taking her off the ABX and then expose her to some kind of stressor to see what happens.
 
OneAcreFarm":ufug1s53 said:
It is basically impossible to eradicate P. multocida from the sinus cavities of an infected rabbit, due to the lack of adequate blood flow to carry the ABX there.

I have been wondering if "flooding" the nostrils with antibiotics would be a treatment option.
 
MamaSheepdog":ewdjwc50 said:
OneAcreFarm":ewdjwc50 said:
It is basically impossible to eradicate P. multocida from the sinus cavities of an infected rabbit, due to the lack of adequate blood flow to carry the ABX there.

I have been wondering if "flooding" the nostrils with antibiotics would be a treatment option.

That might not get all the way into the sinus cavities and you *might* drown the poor bun! :p
 
I sure hope his treatment works, since I've been giving medicine I've been keeping him in my living room away from the others, but I need to remember to be careful about always washing my hands and even changing my clothes before feeding and handling other rabbits. When I first got him I let him run in the same run with my Jersey Wooly, which I now realize was a big mistake and now I know always always quarantine new rabbits. My Jersey Wooly seems fine though and its been over 8 weeks since she was exposed so I'm hoping- knock on wood- she didn't catch anything.<br /><br />__________ Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:19 am __________<br /><br />It's been 7 weeks since I posted and the snuffles have not come back, so the azithromycin did the trick so far... I guess that doesn't mean it won't ever comeback but I'm pretty happy and give the azithromycin two thumbs up so far.
 
So now what you need to do is introduce some type of "stressor" and see if the sneezing/snot returns.
 
I'm interested to know the suspension of the Azithromycin and the dosage you gave...?
 
MamaSheepdog":ag9lo2yq said:
OneAcreFarm":ag9lo2yq said:
It is basically impossible to eradicate P. multocida from the sinus cavities of an infected rabbit, due to the lack of adequate blood flow to carry the ABX there.

I have been wondering if "flooding" the nostrils with antibiotics would be a treatment option.

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe applied like a nasal spray for humans?
 
I used the same drug in the past.
Didn't have a vet check the pathogen, I just happen to have access to azithromycin, and having found it to be rather gentle on the buns, I test it out on occasion.

http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medicati ... iotics.htm

I went with 50 mg daily for 10 days
Once for mastitis (Pancake, it worked very well for that, but she had a weak immune system and was eventually culled for other health problems.)
Once for white snot.

Both cases had no reduced appetite or diahrea.

The sneezer was my senior magpie buck right after I got him back from the show. The breeder would absolutely have replaced him, but... She is over 5 hours away, so...I figured it was worth a try of I maintained quarantine strictly.

To be fair, I only ever actually saw snot once, and it was just a bit. It could have been anything.
He never started it up again after treatment.

2 1/2 months with no snot I felt he was safe enough to breed my jap doe..
A year later with no snot...I'm already done with what I wanted from him.
I don't think I'll ever be convinced he's "cured," and have no intentions of selling the guy..

He could have passed on an immunological weakness to my herd. I am aware of that risk..

Anyway, the drug was as effective as I could have hoped for in the context I used it, at least. It may not have done anything, but it didn't fail me either.

Not too useful to breeders maybe, but it might not be so bad if US vets gave the stuff a try with pet rabbits every now and again.
 
Is there any way to obtain this other than going to the vet? I know a lot of rabbit owners administer their own meds and avoid the vet if possible.....pen G doesn't help? How long after exposure do you normally see symptoms develop? 4 weeks? And is this treatment expensive? Is it a viable option for the average rabbit owner or more commonly used in special situations when trying to preserve a bloodline or for show rabbits that are more expensive? Just some thoughts.....I still have an eye issue, hoping it's not Pasturella but so far no snuffles and it's been a month since we have had him....
 
macksmom98":c2rvzbcg said:
Is there any way to obtain this other than going to the vet?
Not that I know of. Grandma is my supply.

I know a lot of rabbit owners administer their own meds and avoid the vet if possible.....pen G doesn't help?
Never tried it.
How long after exposure do you normally see symptoms develop?
From my understanding, most buns have been exposed to some strain or another. Symptoms may or may not develop after any period of stress. Most rabbits immune systems can keep the strains they have been exposed to in check.

And is this treatment expensive? Is it a viable option for the average rabbit owner or more commonly used in special situations when trying to preserve a bloodline or for show rabbits that are more expensive? Just some thoughts.....I still have an eye issue, hoping it's not Pasturella but so far no snuffles and it's been a month since we have had him....

Treating snuffles in breeding animals is always controversial. Euthanizing infected animals is just about the only fool-proof method we have of maintaining the strong immune systems our herds need to keep it in check.

As it is, vets and shelters routinely medicate the stuff into remission and send those rabbits back out into the world to infect others.

I could easily see snuffles going the way of parvo in dogs or rhinotracheitis in cats if people vaccinate and use antibiotics to suppress it for a few generations.

I may have treated an animal for snot to get what I wanted out of him, but I'm ready to cull him the moment I see it again, and I'd NEVER sell him as the chances of it reappearing and infecting others are too high.

I only tried it as a test because I didn't want to spend another 12 hours in the car to replace $30 rabbit. :lol:
The breeder was actually ready to replace him if I wasn't able to satisfactorily suppress the condition.
In other words, he was treated because he was expendable, not because he was too valuable to lose.
If I thought they were particularly valuable, I would have euthanized on the spot to protect the others, and accepted the replacement.
 
Zass":1lpvw53a said:
Treating snuffles in breeding animals is always controversial. Euthanizing infected animals is just about the only fool-proof method we have of maintaining the strong immune systems our herds need to keep it in check.

As it is, vets and shelters routinely medicate the stuff into remission and send those rabbits back out into the world to infect others.

.

I agree with this completely... I have seen this myself, I personally do not agree with the policy of shelters who treat enough to suppress the symptoms, and then sell them [adoption fees] to unsuspecting people, who then infect all of their animals. I have seen rabbits who have been treated repeatedly for pasteurella, month after month, , sold to people with other rabbits, who came looking for pets.
 
I am going to post another thread on my own situation, but if most rabbits have been exposed to the disease and do ok, does anyone know why it can become such a domino effect when you have one that gets it? Is it simply a situation where the more exposure it is, the worse it can be? It seems if you have a healthy rabbit that was unaffected when exposed, would continue to not be affected. Yet you hear all these stories about people struggling with this illness and it wiping out large amounts of rabbits.....
 
macksmom98":979w6fo3 said:
I am going to post another thread on my own situation, but if most rabbits have been exposed to the disease and do ok, does anyone know why it can become such a domino effect when you have one that gets it? Is it simply a situation where the more exposure it is, the worse it can be? It seems if you have a healthy rabbit that was unaffected when exposed, would continue to not be affected. Yet you hear all these stories about people struggling with this illness and it wiping out large amounts of rabbits.....

The more one rabbit is affected the higher it's bacterial "load". Some rabbits can fight off a small exposure but fail when their next door neighbor is blowing snot in their face.
 
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