My harlie program is now getting complicated...............

[GBov]

So I started with a tri color doe and her daughter and son - both harlie - and a NZ red buck.

I now have the tricolor doe's (Honey) litter with the NZ red buck = mostly broken reds

Her daughter's (Tiger)first litter with the NZ red buck of mostly solid reds with the odd streak of black stripe. Have kept two dark red does and a lighter red buck from that litter.

Tigers second litter with her now deceased brother Stripes of three BEAUTIFUL harlie marked kits.

So Tiger's first kits are almost old enough to start breeding.

How do I best use them to help reach my goal of a really nice harlie coat on a NZ body?

 

[3mina]

Depending on how many you have, I'd breed some back to the original does and buck. Breed some to their parents and then breed some ofthe kits to each other.
I know I probably don't need to remind you but I will, KEEP NOTES, more detailed notes than just pedigrees but I'd start peds for each rabbit as well. This will help you define your goals and keep you on track with which traits are most important to you. There's a line breeding chart in the other rabbit topics section, that should help you put, umm, two and two together :mrgreen:

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat: and include the QUALITY of the markings so you know who was a good cross.

 

[GBov]

The biggest set back I have had are NONE of the original bucks are available! Had to cull one due to an abscess, the dog got one and I sold one. I figured TWO bucks were ample to be working with right now. :roll:

I almost sent Tiger's only remaining buck kit to freezer camp yesterday as his markings are so faint but then I thought "Hang about! He is the ONLY buck with any harlie in him almost old enough to breed!" so kept him back with his sisters.

*whew* That was a close one!

Am playing telephone tag with the only harlie breeder I have found in this area. I bought four NZ red doe kits and want to swap one of them for one of her bucks. She doesn't have Jap. Harlies but as this is all so complicated anyway, whats a Magpie or two amongst friends :lol:

 

[ladysown]

do know that first off harlequin markings can be a bit a lottery.

You can get your markings but have them not well marked. It can be frustrating.

Keep your darkest marked kits for breeding. Cross that light buck to a harlequin marked kit to get hopefully a better marked buck. Use that better marked buck with offspring from a harlequin cross breeding.

Keep pedigrees.
Keep good records.
Continue to cull for health and type FIRST. Consider your markings third...the markings will come with time.

and by the by... PICTURES!!!! we want and thrive on pictures.

 

[GBov]

A reason to take more pictures? YAY! My camera died before I got all I wanted but here they are for your viewing pleasure.



This is Honey ( mum to Patches, Tiger and Stripes) with her newest litter. They are Rusty's - New Zealand Red - last litter before being culled for an abscess.



Same buns, just different positions. Honey is the mostly white Tricolor in the front. Her markings leave LOTS to be desired but hopefully a few generations down the line we will wind up with tri and harlies like I want.



This is Tiger (Honey x Bowler) with her newest litter. The buck is - or, courtesy of the dog, WAS - Stripes. The little devils took the chance to have a midday snack instead of posing for good pictures

__________ Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:21 am __________



Tiger's kits by her brother Stripes. The deep red kits are not hers by birth, she is fostering them. They are turning out a little bit special in their own right and she is proving to be a great mother, even though her litters so far have been smallish.



I just couldnt get the little things to hold STILL!!! But got the best picture I could of this one. Its beautiful! Lots of black on it but the colors are nice and bright.



This it Tiger's last litter by Rusty and they will be ready to breed in about 6 weeks.

The lighter one checking out my hand for treats is the buck and the other two are does.



She has the deep red I want so now to keep working on markings, color, temperment and grow out.

Thats a bit of a tall order :lol:<br /><br />__________ Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:32 am __________<br /><br />

Just one more of Tiger's by her brother Stripes.

Sorry about the manure pile :evil: Tiger has decided to make and remake it when I take it out :roll: she pulls hay out of the hay rack JUST to poo on it!

Do any of your does do this? Or is she just "special"?

 

[ladysown]

mix that lightly marked one with your heavily marked one and you might get some decent kits out of that markings wise.

the one kit with the split face is a good little bun from what I can see.

the one kit shows decent banding.

the red isn't quite the right colour for harlequins but looks good overall.

 

[mwtrees]

if you are trying to get them to show red is not an acceptable color for harlequin. If you are just doing it for the fun of it, it probably doesn't matter.

 

[Dood]

if you are trying to get them to show red is not an acceptable color for harlequin.

The standard identify's them by black, blue, chocolate and lilac, since it is easier but the Harlequin is genetically a red (or fawn or cream or orange) rabbit with the japanese harlequin gene so red is an acceptable colour when paired with black.

Ladysown meant that the red in these rabbits is too light and needs more rufus factors to be a showable 'black' harlequin. If she was breeding chocolate or blue harlequins the fawn colour would be just right.

__________ Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:04 pm __________

Which is really weird since the broken red, solid reds and their red littermates are GLOWING red and look like they have a ton of Rufus..... really weird

 

[mwtrees]

actually the color even of a black japanese is not red and black, but orange and black. i've seen a harlequin dq'd for being red and not orange

 

[GBov]

I am not trying to get them for showing, I want tiger stripes for a bed throw :twisted:

So I am trying to make the richest reds, oranges, creams and blacks I can.

And you are so right Dood about the washed out ones with the nice rich reds. It almost put me off the entire project but, thankfully, I am stuborn

 

[ladysown]

sometimes that washed out looked disappears through the first moult so don't give up on 'em yet.

They'll do you for a colourful coat though.

 

[GBov]

sometimes that washed out looked disappears through the first moult so don't give up on 'em yet.

They'll do you for a colourful coat though.

Well, I didn't exactly give up on two of them, they will be great for dinner And I brain tanned the hide too!

I wish I had the cage space and money to keep them all for 7 or 8 months to be sure I am keeping the very best but space just doesn't allow it, nor does money :roll:

 

[ladysown]

why 7-8, you can often breed NZ's starting at 5 months.

 

[GBov]

why 7-8, you can often breed NZ's starting at 5 months.

Having just learned that fact I haven't yet had the chance to give it a try but this duo of does shall be bred as soon as we settle into our new digs.

But by 7 or 8 months their pelts are prime and they have stopped changing when they shed, haven't they?

These five changed lots as they grew and I was sorry to have to cull the two I did but I just didnt have cage space for them all.

Good thing I did with one of them, he had somehow ripped his scrotum open and his testicle was hanging out, all crusty black and scabby. Ick!<br /><br />__________ Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:15 pm __________<br /><br />I dont know if its the mutt blood in them helping them mature early but one of the sisters was pulling fur yesterday :shock:

They are only 4 and a half months old!

 

[Maxine]

Sorry about the manure pile :evil: Tiger has decided to make and remake it when I take it out :roll: she pulls hay out of the hay rack JUST to poo on it!

Do any of your does do this? Or is she just "special"?

My doe, Ginger, after I cleaned the nesting box decided it was too clean and now poops and pees in it constantly. Grrrr