Major life upheaval, opinions needed...

[Kyle@theWintertime]

My "life goal" is a little hobby farm. I just want space for myself, my critters and room to have a really awesome garden. Acreage has always been desirable for me, but over the years my desire for livestock has changed drastically.

Where once I saw space in my life for cattle and chickens to supply meat, I now prefer not to eat much beef and instead have focused my energy on venison (I hunt) and rabbit (which I raise myself). I don't need to "farm" the deer (they raid a friend's farm so I'm a welcome guest in Autumn, because I like to eat their "hooved vermin!") and my rabbits, which do take up SOME space, don't take MUCH space. One or two large rooms is all I need. I would like a hen or two for eggs, but again, chickens don't take a lot of space, either.

I have also dreampt of rolling pastoral fields with small roving sheep (likely Shetland sheep...I like old northern "primitive" short-tailed sheep breeds over the more modern "improved" breeds) to take my love of fiber arts to whole new levels (imagine being able to not only say "I made this sweater for you" but "I raised the sheep, sheared them, spun their wool into yarn and made this sweater for you") but I'm increasingly leaning towards getting a small "flock" of French Angora rabbits instead.

The past few years have been financial crisis after financial crisis. At one point I was even qualified for a loan from the bank as far as buying a house goes, but due to more financial issues I couldn't comfortably make that leap. I've been renting for years now, and hate it. I don't dislike the house I'm in now but I don't love it, either. It is old, in some stages of disrepair, has a pretty small and craptacular yard...and is in the not-great part of town. However, it has it's perks...the landlord is totally fine with animals of any species and number. I mentioned at one point to the 'lord that I was getting into rabbits and they were like "how many?" I said "upwards of thirty to forty within two years" and the 'lord, being awesome, said "Okay, s'cool!"

But still. I have one small acre of land, most of it occupied by the old house of oldness, and the gardens suck. The soil is sandy and hasn't been fertilized or improved so nothing grows well. When the occasional edible object appears in my garden, it is either instantly gnawed on by one of the many mange-ridden squirrels in the area or one of the obnoxious jerkarse neighbor kids. The chain-link fence does little to deter them. We've had to call the cops repeatedly on some neighbors due to their vicious dog getting loose and trying to kill my senior Cocker...we've also called the cops on them when they stop feeding that poor thing, too. Our driveway is off of an alley that in winter is not plowed unless I pay for it, either.

I tell you all this so you know why I'm both scared and sorely tempted by an offer.

Right now my credit isn't great because I don't believe in "plastic money" (if I don't have the money, I don't buy things, simple as that) and apparently paying for everything in cash means I'm less trustworthy than people in horrific debt. Go figure!!! I expressed frustration to my dad...and he said he's been trying to find the way to make me an offer.

He's willing to put the down payment on a house, in his name, and then let me just pay off the mortgage, which shouldn't be much more than what I'm paying now in rent. He admitted that he worries about the neighborhood I live in and he understands my desire for a nicer place. He suggested a house near his. It is an odd looking house, clearly a lot of additions to it. BIG back yard, large front yard...it is on a street corner so there's a neighbor on one side and a wooded lot on the other adjacent lot. The house has a two-stall garage that would be perfect for a "rabbit barn" setup and an area where a nice carport could be put up for my car and my friend and roommate's car. I haven't seen inside yet so no idea what it's like, but I want to. The back yard has eight foot privacy fencing around all sides except for a large car-sized mesh-and-wood gate. Big currently-empty garden beds line a whole section of the yard...more could easily be made. There's even a huge cement area in the back that could be the foundation of a nice big deck...I love decks, someplace to have a hammock and enjoy being outside, somewhere to fire up the grill...would be nice.

I'm sorely tempted by this odd house...it is literally twice the size of the house I'm renting now, and is quite cheap (it is a strange looking thing that has been vacant a long time). My only real concern is that in some ways it feels like I'd be giving up my hobby farm dreams. I'm not really sure if I want to live within the city limits, even in a quieter and more suburbia-like neighborhood.

Then again, besides horses, nothing I want can't be had in this patch of land. I just don't know!

My close friend (we've been best friends since second grade) and I will be discussing the pros and cons on Wednesday, but...I thought I'd ask here, since I know several of you have farms and homesteads of your own. Could I make a go of it on about two acres of land? Do I hold out for more acreage? It could be years or NEVER before I have a chance at a bigger patch of land.

And of course this is all contingent on the inside being as nice as the outside, lol. If the kitchen is closet-sized or there's not enough bedrooms, forget it. But the yard and garage have my interest piqued!!!

Thanks in advance to anyone who shares an opinion...or to anyone who read this far, heh!

 

[Miss M]

Wow, I wish I had some thoughts for you! I have no idea which way to suggest to go.

Where you are, you can do what you want, at least as much as possible (raised-bed Square-Foot Gardens might be the answer), but it's in a bad area and isn't very big.

The other place is in town, where doing what you want may be a problem, especially if you have nosey neighbors. But the house and property are bigger and have more possibilities.

Tough one. Maybe find out what the bylaws are where that house is?

We have the same credit situation. We don't buy stuff we can't pay for, so we probably have bad credit. Go figure.

 

[trinityoaks]

My first thought is, be very cautious about how this could change your relationship with your dad. Money and debt can do funny, unexpected things to people. Will the house be in your name, joint between you and your dad, or in his name? (Presumably the loan will be in his name.)

Second, what are the zoning and/or deed restrictions like? Neighbors?

Is this a house you would want to own long-term (i.e. resale value)? Would your dad consider a different house in an area with better prospects?

 

[skysthelimit]

I understand your situation. I have more student loans than I can ever pay off in the profession that said education has prepared me for. I would love some day to have land, but I have no useful credit left and pretty much live hand to mouth, day to day. Trying to save is a joke. My grandmother gave me a house in the 'hood, a small plot, but after a year of hitting the floor in the middle of the night, hoping bullets don't pass through the walls, I took my mom up on the offer of living in a house that is owned by our church. It meant I could no longer have my dogs in the house, but it gave me significantly more useful land than I had before. Now I am a bit trapped. I can't do everything I want, but it is very comfortable. I have a barn that is bigger than my house inside city limits. I pay very little for rent.

One thing, we both made sure the terms were VERY clear, and plans were made if/when I should move out, and what would happen to the house, and what my role would be in it. Resale value is important, and although i try not to put too much in a house I may eventually leave, I do want it to have some resale value when/if I go.

The good thing is, besides the fact that I would want more land, and I want less neighbors, the zoning laws allow me to to keep pretty much what I would want. If I am totally honest, at this stage of my life, I don't know how I would be able to handle anymore animals or more land by myself anyway, and work full time.

 

[ladysown]

check the legal issues first before moving.

see what the neighbours are like.

But I'd be inclined to do it. two acres.. you can do alot with two acres.

 

[trinityoaks]

A couple more things: Make sure EVERYTHING is in writing, especially what would happen if you can't work for whatever reason (laid off, disabled, etc.), whether you make payments to your dad or directly to the lender, and what happens if you want to move out.

 

[grumpy]

We all have "big" plans/dreams when we are somewhat young. As we grow older, the acceptance of "less" than what we had held in our dreams becomes easier to deal with.

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum from your situation. I have a small farm, (8.78 acres) near a small community. It was a "dream" that came to fruition. Yet, I must admit, it was too late in my life. We moved to this town because we didn't want our adoptive sons raised in the city and going to the public schools. Time has passed, 16 years to be exact, and now the upkeep is beyond what I can easily do. I long to move back to my small home in the city. I've never sold it on the outside chance I may be able to return one day. It is outside the city limits of K.C.MO. No restrictions!!

The expenses living in this rural area and maintaining full-time employment in the city are horrendous. Yet, the boys have graduated from high-school with the exception of the youngest. He's now a junior. One more year. They've been "raised-on-the-farm" and enjoyed life in a small town. Now....they've grown-up and began to leave home. I look forward to less work, less miles, less expenses, with my smaller home.

Will I ever be able to return? Probably not. My wife never liked the small home. It was mine before we married. Even as we grow older....there are still decisions and options that need to be considered. Hope for the best....but plan for the worst. Most of our lives are a "trade-off". We just try to make best of what is at hand.

Grumpy.

 

[skysthelimit]

check the legal issues first before moving.

see what the neighbours are like.

But I'd be inclined to do it. two acres.. you can do alot with two acres.

there was a great article about being self sufficiency on one acre on Mother Earth. I'd be thrilled if I could just get one acre.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

RE: Miss M-

I know, right??? It makes no sense to me that paying with cash is less trustworthy than paying with plastic and then paying interest on the debt to the plastic people. I know I'm grossly oversimplifying it but...still.

RE: Trinityoaks-

That's part of it, my dad said he'd be willing to basically write off the down payment. Ergo, unless there's some unrelated issue where I need his help, I won't owe him anything except major gratitude. The house would be in his name at least at purchase, not sure about later...we'd have to work out the details.

I asked if he'd consider somewhere outside the city, i.e. more acreage and more lenient with livestock, but he nixed that. He did say that part of it is to see me in a better neighborhood...I'm unafraid of where I am now but it does freak him out, a lot.

I'm not certain on the bylaws, I assume they'll be the same as my dad's house, as they're about a mile apart.

As to long-term...I'm not sure, my friend Onca keeps reassuring me that it is a "starter" house and should I choose to dig in and stay, I can add to and improve over time (similar to her parent's house; they bought it a lifetime ago and have added to it, turned it into one of my favorite places to be, indeed several ideas I have for my gardens and interior design come from how much I love that place!) or...live there a decade and then sell/move. The house isn't worth much though...it's odd looking and while in a great area, hasn't sold in a long time due to the weirdness. From the look of it, there's at least two major (and oddly fitted) additions to the house.

RE: Skysthelimit-

...that's a pretty good point, actually. Thank you so much for sharing your story, it does help shed a little light on my own issue at hand.

I do like that I'd have a pretty awesome garden within the first year at this new place. That is a VERY big draw.

Knowing my dad (retired attourney) the terms and conditions will be amply clear and in writing, I'm not too worried about that.

RE: Ladysown-

There's only one close neighbor, a smallist brick house next door...while I was walking around the outside of the property, I didn't see who lives there. If it's a big family with loud children I might be upset, tbh. On the upside, we're pretty quiet folk...I just need the TV a little louder than the average person due to being a bit hard of hearing. No loud music blaring, no loud parties...I'm a pretty boring fellow.

I keep thinking about how just the garden area alone is larger than my current whole back yard. I'm not even joking. I could very easily accomodate a row or two of corn. Corn, for pete's sake!!!! Can you imagine??? CORN!!!

RE: Trinityoaks-

Oh I'm sure it'll all be writing, ad nauseum. My dad loves written contracts.

RE: Grumpy-

You make a very good point. I still feel like I'm a pretty young person but time marches ever onward...I think I would miss having horses on my own land but as Onca said, it might behoove me to board my future equines instead anyways: I do travel a fair bit since my son lives eight hours away with my ex.

Which is another thing...a very nice if strange-looking house in a good neighborhood...with a room of his own...my son could start spending summers with me.

The perks of this possible house only get better and better.

 

[curlysue]

The house sounds great.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Quick update...I had to drive past the house again today anyways so I pulled over and had a second look. I'm glad I did because a nice fellow working on the fence next door popped over to say hi. He does a lot of work and home renovations for the lone neighbor; turns out the only neighbor (the one in the brick house) lives alone, is gone most of the time, and is a very quiet, not-nosey neighbor who keeps to himself. I'm okay with that. The "neighbors" across the street and kitty-corner to them are quiet-ish...he said one family has a dog that barks sometimes but not often. The others are also quiet but like two houses down the family has small children so sometimes they play rather loudly in the little dead-end nearby. This I'm also okay with...the sounds of young children having fun is not noise to me, just a happy bit of background music. He did warn me that he and the lone neighbor have been combating deer for years, and that they tend to eat the hell out of whatever gets planted, so he did recommend that if I do jump on this house, I run wire all over the garden areas to deter deer.

He was happy to describe the area (driving past it isn't the same as living there)...said it's a nice quiet place where everyone basically keeps to themselves and nobody even wants to be social with each other. This I'm totally okay with, that's how I like it. The traffic is a little annoying...one side butts up against a semi-busy road. However it is still less traffic than where I'm at now, so...can't really complain too much.

He confirmed that the house has several cobbled-together afterthought-style additions but has no idea what the inside looks like. He said that as far as they know, the owner is in prison and the house was a rental...but then the renters left and the house has been vacant (and due to lack of maintenance, an eyesore) ever since. He seemed very excited by the possibility that someone might actually want that house...he did say that he's tired of watching the yard overgrow and the fence rot and fall down.

I called the number on the for-sale sign, they couldn't find the file or whatever on that house (jeez, how long has it been just sitting there?!) so they're going to call me back. I strongly suspect the house needs a lot of work...but that also it will likely be a rock-bottom price.

I'm still unsure about it all but eager to investigate what this house looks like internally!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Good luck, Kyle!

When we bought our first house, my BIL and SIL gave us a loan for the down payment, which we paid back with interest when we sold it. It was a good way to "get our foot in the door".

As for establishing credit, it is an important thing to do even if you intend to live life in the "cash and carry" mode. Getting a credit line at a retailer you frequent is a good place to start- make a purchase, and pay it off when the bill comes. A word to the young ladies out there- keep a credit line open in your maiden name when you marry so you always have credit in your own name.

The yard sounds great, and you can sustain yourself pretty well on 2 acres. Maybe you can dig a pit trap for the deer... :twisted: :lol: and even a strangely designed house has potential- you can always knock out non load bearing walls to open the space up. Be certain to find a reliable assessor to check the house over for any major issues before you make a decision, and factor the cost of repairs into your budget.

Keep us updated! I can hardly wait to hear what you find when you get inside!

 

[Random Rabbit]

The story goes that our home was built like Topsy..." It Growed " as the family did.

When we bought it... we say "It has Character".... nothing is square, nothing plumb ...and one floor slopes a bit cuz when That addition was built... someone made a mistake with a line level.... i like houses with character....

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Well, we saw the inside! I brought along my best friend Onca, she's much smarter and more realistic than I am.

The realtor person was able to run over and give us a little tour...and all I could do was laugh. I had hoped the house was strange-looking on the outside to accommodate awesomeness inside, but instead it was like a carnival house gone wrong. I just kept laughing at how totally ridiculous the layout was!! The bedrooms are nice...two huge ones and two smaller ones. There's a "fifth" bedroom in the basement but since it doesn't have a window it isn't a "legal" bedroom, but still.

The whole place is like a single-story Escher painting with a basement. I laughed and laughed...every few minutes I'd hear Onca saying "why would they DO that" or "what were they THINKING" and I'd happily go laugh at it. Even the realtor was chuckling.

Things like the stupidest bathroom layout ever...no really, I can't describe it but needless to say it would have to be completely remodeled to be remotely useful. There's a shower in the basement, at the end of a lightless corridor...and INSIDE THE SHOWER there is the circuit breaker for the house. XD!!!! Who thought THAT was a good idea?! Some of the additions to the house are un-heated, which is just strange but frankly my immediate thought was "Oh, that would be GREAT for my rabbits!" There are windows to nowhere and everything is just...hilarious. XD

The kitchen is meh...there isn't a lot of closet space...the basement layout is absurd.

There are some things I loved...it has a lot of built-into-the-wall shelving and cabinets...it is a largely "open" floorplan with few hallways...and if you can get past the absolute ridiculousness it isn't too shabby. But it DOES need a lot of work, and when I say a lot, I mean a LOT, to make it liveable.

My next step is to have my dad look at it. Onca is advising me to pass on this house due to sheer insanity of whoever made it a mad-house...I dunno, I kind of like it though. Even she has to admit the house has a very funny, welcoming "feel" to it.

We shall see!!!

 

[trinityoaks]

Ehhhhh. . . I'm thinking I would pass. First of all, your (dad's) lender will require safety inspections and all of that. I would guess it will NOT pass, especially with that circuit breaker in a shower!

And at some point down the road, you're going to want to sell that house. It sounds as though a complete remodel would be needed to make it remotely saleable to most people.

Your (dad's) lender will also be looking at resale potential before they will lend you the money for the purchase. I would be surprised if you could get a lender to put up the money for this house.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

As Onca was pointing out to me over dinner, she saw several things that were safety code violations. All in all looking like this is a bust.

Not sure about what my dad thinks...he was out when I called.

 

[trinityoaks]

How much does land go for in your area, and is there any available? Maybe you could buy the place for land value only, tear the house down, and build new, if you could get a lender to agree on those terms.

 

[Miss M]

I helped give a facelift to a house like that once, and I lived in it for a while. It was pretty fun, laughing at all the craziness of it, but it just made it all the more loveable!

We left the inside of the coat closet door the way it was, so we could always show people the crazy paint scheme the house used to have! :lol:

 

[Frecs]

I've not read the other replies so forgive me if I repeat them.

Like you, I once dreamt of acres of land and horses (or mules) and sheep and goats and poultry and...
Like you, those dreams have shifted into something more manageable for me both financially and physically.

Here's the thing, homesteads or hobby farms or self-sufficiency plans -- whatever name you want to use for your dream -- do not come in one particular size. They can be as small as a city lot, a half acre, or 20 acres. There is a family in California who are producing tons of food on a city lot and their "urban homestead" includes rabbits, chickens, ducks, and goats.

I have gone from hoping to purchase a 5-acre homestead to being put on the deed of my sister's land giving me living rights to it. She has given me carte blanche to do as I please with the property. It's precisely .66 acres including a small cottage that I share with my mother and adopted son. I've set a goal over the next 5 years to see just how productive I can make my half acre homestead. I'm planting fruiting trees and vines, putting in as many mixed garden beds of vegetables and herbs (culinary & medicinal), and making room for laying hens, broilers (multiple batches a year), muscovy ducks, geese (because I have folks wanting me to raise their Thanksgiving dinner for them), rabbits (meat and manure producing pets), and dairy goats (Nigerian Dwarfs). I'm hoping the result will be a beautiful sanctuary of a place that produces enough food for my family, friends, and for trade/barter purposes.

I think you should give it a go. Get everything in writing between you and your dad so you both understand the rules of the game. If the mortgage is in his name, the deed will be in his name -- make sure he puts you as having "living rights" and plan for what happens after you pass (as in what happens to the property).<br /><br />__________ Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:40 am __________<br /><br />

Well, we saw the inside!
The whole place is like a single-story Escher painting with a basement. I laughed and laughed...every few minutes I'd hear Onca saying "why would they DO that" or "what were they THINKING" and I'd happily go laugh at it. Even the realtor was chuckling.

Things like the stupidest bathroom layout ever...no really, I can't describe it but needless to say it would have to be completely remodeled to be remotely useful. There's a shower in the basement, at the end of a lightless corridor...and INSIDE THE SHOWER there is the circuit breaker for the house. XD!!!! Who thought THAT was a good idea?! Some of the additions to the house are un-heated, which is just strange but frankly my immediate thought was "Oh, that would be GREAT for my rabbits!" There are windows to nowhere and everything is just...hilarious. XD

Well, are you a good handyman? If yes, buy it at a steal and fix it up for a great resale down the road. If no, then you have to decide whether you can live with it and adapt it to your needs. Real estate is an investment and you need to think about resale even if you intend to keep it forever. But, then again...sometimes you have to think outside the box and see the beauty in the odd. :mrgreen:

 

[fuzzy9]

I think I would pass as well. You may appreciate the humor of it all, but what happens if at some point something happens, and you have to make some quick life changing decisions. Life happens, things change, and what if you would need to sell or move. If this house has been sitting empty for that long, there isn't much resale value there, and especially in this economy right now, that's something to consider. If your father is kind enough to pay for the down payment, and you can't sell, isn't he kind of stuck holding the bag as well?

Not that anything will go wrong, or any horrendous life changing events taking place, but it's just something to consider in all of this. The "what ifs". I'm not saying not to move forward with a purchase, but maybe this just isn't the right home for you at this time. Take your time to look around, and find something that will really fit everything your looking for. Don't settle.