Magpie but sable based?

[beepboop]

*I know the cage wire looks sus, I replaced it since these pics were taken, but it's raining here and I'm too lazy to take new pics*

I got this doe at a flea market, so no idea on lineage. She's suspiciously smutty for cchd so I'm wondering if she might be cchl.

Also, is this kit she produced squirrel or opal? I originally thought chinchilla because of mom, but the kit seems to be displaying too much yellow pigment. Sire is steel and I suspect to be C(ch) OR cchl(ch) [he's an odd looking mystery fellow lol) at the C locus, and this is the only one that looked even remotely chin in the litter, which is another reason I suspect mom might be a cchl magpie. Other kits are two blacks, one that looks self blue and one that looks blue tort maybe?

 

[Alaska Satin]

*I know the cage wire looks sus, I replaced it since these pics were taken, but it's raining here and I'm too lazy to take new pics*

I got this doe at a flea market, so no idea on lineage. She's suspiciously smutty for cchd so I'm wondering if she might be cchl.

Also, is this kit she produced squirrel or opal? I originally thought chinchilla because of mom, but the kit seems to be displaying too much yellow pigment. Sire is steel and I suspect to be C(ch) OR cchl(ch) [he's an odd looking mystery fellow lol) at the C locus, and this is the only one that looked even remotely chin in the litter, which is another reason I suspect mom might be a cchl magpie. Other kits are two blacks, one that looks self blue and one that looks blue tort maybe?

Yes, sable magpie would be my guess too. That yellowish tinge to her face, patches along her flanks and especially in her ears is probably coming from c(chl). It could be sunburn, hutch stain or a molt pattern, but it looks too pervasive and scattered for any of those.

To me, the kit looks pretty clearly sable agouti c(chl) rather than chinchilla c(chd): I see distinct shading on its nose and ears, yellowed/sepia tones to its coat, and darker fur on the bottom of its hind feet. It's quite a lot paler than the sables I've raised but all the markers are there, and the color can vary widely. The other possibility is smoke pearl, aka dilute sable c(chl)_dd, which is always a possibility especially when you don't know the heritage of the parents. Dilute sables versus paler dense-color sables are a little less distinct, to my eye at least, since the difference between blue and black on the ear lacing is diagnostic in other colors, but both black and blue get muddied by the sable c(chl).

Could you post a photo of the sire?

 

[beepboop]

Yes, sable magpie would be my guess too. That yellowish tinge to her face, patches along her flanks and especially in her ears is probably coming from c(chl). It could be sunburn, hutch stain or a molt pattern, but it looks too pervasive and scattered for any of those.

To me, the kit looks pretty clearly sable agouti c(chl) rather than chinchilla c(chd): I see distinct shading on its nose and ears, yellowed/sepia tones to its coat, and darker fur on the bottom of its hind feet. It's quite a lot paler than the sables I've raised but all the markers are there, and the color can vary widely. The other possibility is smoke pearl, aka dilute sable c(chl)_dd, which is always a possibility especially when you don't know the heritage of the parents. Dilute sables versus paler dense-color sables are a little less distinct, to my eye at least, since the difference between blue and black on the ear lacing is diagnostic in other colors, but both black and blue get muddied by the sable c(chl).

Could you post a photo of the sire?

Thank you so much for seconding my suspicions on the dam, @Alaska Satin . I don't believe it's staining or anything like that as I've had her for 6ish months now and she's even molted in that time and other than being a bit lighter or darker her tinge hasn't really changed. The sire is a buck you actually helped me guess on some months ago and suggested sable for him as well, the only reason I said 'suspected to be either or' was because I haven't proven it out with breeding yet. If this baby is sable/blue sable (I do know that dad is Dd from past breedings), that would be confirmed because I know his other 'C' gene is either ch or c from past breedings. I'll post him again here for comparison. I definitely appreciate your input, I get genetics at the basics but once everything starts getting combined the looks and variations confuse me.

 

[Mckatie]

Thank you so much for seconding my suspicions on the dam, @Alaska Satin . I don't believe it's staining or anything like that as I've had her for 6ish months now and she's even molted in that time and other than being a bit lighter or darker her tinge hasn't really changed. The sire is a buck you actually helped me guess on some months ago and suggested sable for him as well, the only reason I said 'suspected to be either or' was because I haven't proven it out with breeding yet. If this baby is sable/blue sable (I do know that dad is Dd from past breedings), that would be confirmed because I know his other 'C' gene is either ch or c from past breedings. I'll post him again here for comparison. I definitely appreciate your input, I get genetics at the basics but once everything starts getting combined the looks and variations confuse me.

Stunning colour!