Is a lutino rabbit genotype equivalent to that found in the budgie? In the budgie we see the lutino in the green series and albino in the blue series! So, there is talk of the agouti being the ideal for improving the lutino, but whst of the blue and black selfs?
Lutino and blue/black colour series.
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The Lutino rabbit gene is the same gene as the 'pink eye' found in mice, rats, hamsters, gerbils and guinea pigs and is on the P-locus so we have a whole bunch of NEW :bananadance: colours to create!
The first lutinos were fawns with purply pink eyes (A_ B_ C_ D_ee pp) but I assume it will work in rabbits the same way it works in mice so a pink eyed black would look like a dove, a pink eyed chocolate would look like a champagne and a pink eyed agouti would look like an argente
The first lutinos were fawns with purply pink eyes (A_ B_ C_ D_ee pp) but I assume it will work in rabbits the same way it works in mice so a pink eyed black would look like a dove, a pink eyed chocolate would look like a champagne and a pink eyed agouti would look like an argente
There is no P in rabbits.
ee is nonextension in rabbits. It creates reds from agoutis and torts from selfs. It has little to do with eye color. It can create a black eyed white called a frosty point or ermine if combined with chinchilla which range from pure white to dove grey. This is rarely done on purpose since they don't show and the shading is unpredictable.
White rabbits come from the c locus which is what also makes the shadeds in both rabbits and gerbils or other rodents.
ee is nonextension in rabbits. It creates reds from agoutis and torts from selfs. It has little to do with eye color. It can create a black eyed white called a frosty point or ermine if combined with chinchilla which range from pure white to dove grey. This is rarely done on purpose since they don't show and the shading is unpredictable.
White rabbits come from the c locus which is what also makes the shadeds in both rabbits and gerbils or other rodents.
There is now.
It is a recent discovery and is being developed in Europe, Norway I believe, and they have named it Lutino and it is equivalent to the 'pink eyed' varieties found in mice and guinea pigs.
(technically all mammals have the same loci but the recessive mutations just haven't cropped up yet or are lethal)
Thank you Dood....I have 3 buck lutino netherland dwarves. Does were not being released and so I got hold of some very nice agouti does. This colour was recommended in developing the lutino. Since I also keep budgies and enjoy learning about genetics I wondered about the two colour series and possible similarities. Once I have built up a decent stud I will try crossing with the black and chocolates.
OneAcreFarm
Well-known member
redbunny":2mu7epy8 said:
Redbunny, since this board is primarily US/Canadian members, won't wont find many of us familiar with European breeds/colors and genetics. I would be willing to say that the majority of us have never heard of Lutino in Rabbits or the P_ locus.
I am glad that Dood at least was familiar with it, because you would have likely gotten the same response from the rest us is as Akane... :lol:<br /><br />__________ Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:05 am __________<br /><br />
Dood":2mu7epy8 said:
Can you post some research links for this if you know of any?
Here are couple more
http://www.kaninchenwissen.de/knowledge ... .php?id=34
http://www.amysrabbitranch.com/Color&Ge ... 202011.pdf
You will get lutinos quicker if you breed to a red (genotype A_ B_ C_ D_ ee PP), but I dont know if thats available to you.
If you breed to agouti it will take a couple generations or more since ND have small litters because you need to get the non extension (ee) as well as the lutino (pp) into your rabbits.
The first litter will all carry non extension and lutino (A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee Pp)
Breed these does to your bucks and you should get
25% agouti that are carriers ..............(A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee Pp)
25% agouti lutino.............................(A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee pp) which are called argente in mice
25% fawn/red who are carriers ........ (A_ B_ C_ D_ ee Pp)
25% lutino......................................(A_ B_ C_ D_ ee pp)
http://www.kaninchenwissen.de/knowledge ... .php?id=34
http://www.amysrabbitranch.com/Color&Ge ... 202011.pdf
Your bucks are likely fawn based with the lutino gene (genotype A_ B_ C_ D_ ee pp)I dont know what goes in the blanks so you may get other colours as well, but lets not worry about that right now :mrgreen:
You will get lutinos quicker if you breed to a red (genotype A_ B_ C_ D_ ee PP), but I dont know if thats available to you.
If you breed to agouti it will take a couple generations or more since ND have small litters because you need to get the non extension (ee) as well as the lutino (pp) into your rabbits.
The first litter will all carry non extension and lutino (A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee Pp)
Breed these does to your bucks and you should get
25% agouti that are carriers ..............(A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee Pp)
25% agouti lutino.............................(A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee pp) which are called argente in mice
25% fawn/red who are carriers ........ (A_ B_ C_ D_ ee Pp)
25% lutino......................................(A_ B_ C_ D_ ee pp)
skysthelimit
Well-known member
It's pretty amazing how European lines differ from what we have in the States, and how quick certain genes can be removed from our gene pool, even when the original lines came from the same place. Just look at dog breeds that came over to the US from Europe, in some cases how body style and colors are different and no longer exist here, but are still being bred in Europe.
Dear skysthelimit, I absolutely agree with you re the dogs. I am in London and have boxers. My family in Houston also have them.....they look so different although their fun of life seems just as full as ours. Thank you for your comment.
__________ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:09 pm __________
Dear Dood, what a great comment. Thank you. Now I feel I'm really hitting on the subject. I actually have a great collection of Netherlands and made a huge effort to keep the rarer colours that's why I tracked down the lutinos which were a 10 hour round drive. I also have some champagne de argente which have been used to develop the silver dwarf. They are doing a great job in Belgium. So.....I also have some red does which is kinda hitting the jackpot then! I'll not be mating any up until the winter is out of the way.
I'm in the States 3 or 4 times a year......I have it in my mind to bring some of your incredible dwarf Hotots back with me.<br /><br />__________ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:14 pm __________<br /><br />Dear Dood, thank you for the links. I'd like to shake Amy's hand at amysrabbitranch. I've downloaded all of her articles. Her comments on the genetics of Hotots is stunning......
__________ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:09 pm __________
Dear Dood, what a great comment. Thank you. Now I feel I'm really hitting on the subject. I actually have a great collection of Netherlands and made a huge effort to keep the rarer colours that's why I tracked down the lutinos which were a 10 hour round drive. I also have some champagne de argente which have been used to develop the silver dwarf. They are doing a great job in Belgium. So.....I also have some red does which is kinda hitting the jackpot then! I'll not be mating any up until the winter is out of the way.
I'm in the States 3 or 4 times a year......I have it in my mind to bring some of your incredible dwarf Hotots back with me.<br /><br />__________ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:14 pm __________<br /><br />Dear Dood, thank you for the links. I'd like to shake Amy's hand at amysrabbitranch. I've downloaded all of her articles. Her comments on the genetics of Hotots is stunning......
Just because they call it lutino I wouldn't go comparing it to the budgie genetics. Birds genetics are quite different than mammals and budgie color series are nothing like rabbits. Instead consider what happens to a gerbil when you put p on it. That would be a lot closer. I don't foresee p rabbits being that popular here unless they create some very unusual color because people hate red eyes.
Devon's Mom Lauren
Well-known member
Lutino seems to be another type of albinism and it doesn't really matter what colour the rabbit is, black pigment cannot be expressed, making their eyes lighter and "red-like" I like the tans with the lutino gene they are really pretty.I also think their eyes are not quite the red of a full albino (rew). So there you go if one wants to work with the albino mutations there are 3 different types to choose from in rabbits, REW, BEW and Lutino.
Cindi Davis
Well-known member
will be watching and learning Thanks everyone
Dear Lauren, I'm going to build my lutino stud up using my reds first and foremost to preserve the genotype. Then I'll work on type and finally consider other colours but that's not a priority. There are so many netherland dwarf colours these days and all wonderful I'd want to keep them all!<br /><br />__________ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:36 pm __________<br /><br />
